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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 6/19/2004 5:19 AM (GMT -6) |   | Dan 12:1,2...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Rev 20:4-6...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Daniel's "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; some to everlasting life ", appears to be the same "Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection", of John. And Daniel's "some to shame [and] everlasting contempt", appears to be "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", of John.
Imagination projects unreal images out of the mind and seeks to attach reality to them. Faith creates nothing; it simply reckons upon that which is already there. | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 6/19/2004 6:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Tim,
quote:
Dan 12:1,2...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
I think there are premillenialists who say that the way the Hebrew reads (correct me if I'm wrong, Hebraists!), it can read "THESE to everlasting life, and OTHERS to shame and everlasting contempt." If that's true and if premillenialism is true, the OTHERS could be referring to those in the lake of fire during the millenium rather than the second ressurection. I'd be interested in what the Hebrew specialists have to say about this.
wjs | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/19/2004 3:59 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 6/20/2004 2:20 PM (GMT -6) | | Dan 12:1,2...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Mat 24:21, 29, 30...then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
...Immediately after the tribulation of those days
...They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Daniel's " there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time", appears to be the same "then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time", of Jesus.
What do you think?
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 6/20/2004 2:29 PM (GMT -6) | | Tim,
quote:
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 7:20:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan 12:1,2...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Mat 24:21, 29, 30...then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
...Immediately after the tribulation of those days
...They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Daniel's " there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time", appears to be the same "then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time", of Jesus.
What do you think?
I agree with you; what do you think about my first post? Conceivable?
wjs | | Back to Top | | |
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 6/20/2004 2:51 PM (GMT -6) | | New American Standard Bible
Dan 12:1, 2...there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt.
Rev 20:5-7The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection (The statement, "This is the first resurrection" refers to the previous verse 4 context, not the immediate text). Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison...
(What I Think) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these (at that time) to everlasting life!
...but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt, or "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed."
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I hope you do not mind my comments (what I think  ) being mostly restricted to Scripture?
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 6/22/2004 12:51 AM (GMT -6) | | | I will post in a few days, havn't the time right now, cya in a while . | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/22/2004 2:27 AM (GMT -6) | | jefscott: Christ said that when He separates the sheep from the goats at His parousia, the goats will be cast into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
1. Parousia means "fulness." When (not necessarily a "time" but more of a "state.")
2. Let me recommend: "River of Fire" www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm | | Back to Top | | |
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scott_jorgenson
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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 271
| Posted 6/22/2004 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | My view: Jesus, John of Patmos, and the writer of Daniel 12 are all speaking in the same tradition, but because that tradition is apocalyptic and not literal, it is improper to press them for harmony in the details, and thus unsurprising to find it difficult, if not impossible, to satisfactorily harmonize them in the details. The millenium, in particular, is found nowhere outside of the Revelation - neither Daniel nor Jesus allude to a period of earthly rule between the end of tribulation and the final judgment. Nor do they allude to two resurrections, two judgments, or two final battles. Only John.
The details don't agree because they don't agree, and they shouldn't be expected to agree (except in the broadest sense: ie that there will be an end, etc) due to the literary genre in which they are expressed. This is why voted "disagree" on the poll.
Scott
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 6/23/2004 2:16 AM (GMT -6) | |
Topic: Resurrection
Dan 12:1, 2...there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time:
And at that time (Mat24:21?)
...Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life (First Resurrection?), and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt (Second Death?). [Mat 25:31-34,41?]
Mat 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Dan 12:1?)
Mat 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins...(thrown in just for fun!)
(And at that time?)
Mat 25:31-34,41When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you (First Resurrection?)...
...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire (Second Death?), prepared for the devil and his angels... (Dan 12:2, Rev 20?)
Rev 20And I saw an angel...he laid hold on...Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit...till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...And the devil...was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are*Rev19:20], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Dan 12:2, Mat 25:41?)
* Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him...These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Imagination projects unreal images out of the mind and seeks to attach reality to them. Faith creates nothing; it simply reckons upon that which is already there. | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 6/23/2004 2:58 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel
jefscott: Christ said that when He separates the sheep from the goats at His parousia, the goats will be cast into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
1. Parousia means "fulness." When (not necessarily a "time" but more of a "state.")
2. Let me recommend: "River of Fire" www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm
Allow me to post insights that are not my own, but that I found to be quite interesting. Just this once promise! I'd love to hear what other's think. The entire article was extremely long. This was near the end...so here's a snippet 4 u:
(From PoW's recommended reading of the day  )
"Paradise or hell depends on how we will accept God's love. Will we return love for love, or will we respond to His love with hate? This is the critical difference. And this difference depends entirely on us, on our freedom, on our innermost free choice, on a perfectly free attitude which is not influenced by external conditions or internal factors of our material and psychological nature, because it is not an external act but an interior attitude coming from the bottom of our heart, conditioning not our sins, but the way we think about our sins, as it is clearly seen in the case of the publican and the Pharisee and in the case of the two robbers crucified with Christ. This freedom, this choice, this inner attitude toward our Creator is the innermost core of our eternal personality, it is the most profound of our characteristics, it is what makes us that which we are, it is our eternal face — bright or dark, loving or hating.
No, my brothers, unhappily for us, paradise or hell does not depend on God. If it depended on God, we would have nothing to fear. We have nothing to fear from Love. But it does not depend on God. It depends entirely upon us, and this is the whole tragedy. God wants us to be in His image, eternally free. He respects us absolutely. This is love. Without respect, we cannot speak of love. We are men because we are free. If we were not free, we would be clever animals, not men. God will never take back this gift of freedom which renders us what we are. This means that we will always be what we want to be, friends or enemies of God, and there is no changing in this our deepest self. In this life, there are profound or superficial changes in our life, in our character, in our beliefs, but all these changes are only the expression in time of our deepest eternal self. This deep eternal self is eternal, with all the meaning of the word. This is why paradise and hell are also eternal. There is no changing in what we really are. Our temporal characteristics and our history in life depend on many superficial things 'which vanish with death, but our real personality is not superficial and does not depend on changing and vanishing things. It is our real self. It remains with us when we sleep in the grave, and will be our real face in the resurrection. It is eternal.
and...
"Paradise and hell are one and the same River of God, a loving fire which embraces and covers all with the same beneficial will, without any difference or discrimination. The same vivifying water is life eternal for the faithful and death eternal for the infidels; for the first it is their element of life, for the second it is the instrument of their eternal suffocation; paradise for the one is hell for the other. Do not consider this strange. The son who loves his father will feel happy in his father's arms, but if he does not love him, his father's loving embrace will be a torment to him. This also is why when we love the man who hates us, it is likened to pouring lighted coals and hot embers on his head."
Further ...
"I say," writes Saint Isaac the Syrian, "that those who are suffering in hell, are suffering in being scourged by love.... It is totally false to think that the sinners in hell are deprived of God's love. Love is a child of the knowledge of truth, and is unquestionably given commonly to all. But love's power acts in two ways: it torments sinners, while at the same time it delights those who have lived in accord with it" (Homily 84)."
and...
" Now if anyone is perplexed and does not understand how it is possible for God's love to render anyone pitifully wretched and miserable and even burning as it were in flames, let him consider the elder brother of the prodigal son. Was he not in his father's estate? Did not everything in it belong to him? Did he not have his father's love? Did his father not come himself to entreat and beseech him to come and take part in the joyous banquet? What rendered him miserable and burned him with inner bitterness and hate? Who refused him anything? Why was he not joyous at his brother's return? Why did he not have love either toward his father or toward his brother? Was it not because of his wicked, inner disposition? Did he not remain in hell because of that? And what was this hell? Was it any separate place? Were there any instruments of torture? Did he not continue to live in his father's house? What separated him from all the joyous people in the house if not his own hate and his own bitterness? Did his father, or even his brother, stop loving him? Was it not precisely this very love which hardened his heart more and more? Was it not the joy that made him sad? Was not hatred burning in his heart, hatred for his father and his brother, hatred for the love of his father toward his brother and for the love of his brother toward his father? This is hell: the negation of love; the return of hate for love; bitterness at seeing innocent joy; to be surrounded by love and to have hate in one's heart. This is the eternal condition of all the damned. They are all dearly loved. They are all invited to the joyous banquet. They are all living in God's Kingdom, in the New Earth and the New Heavens. No one expels them. Even if they wanted to go away they could not flee from God's New Creation, nor hide from God's tenderly loving omnipresence. Their only alternative would be, perhaps, to go away from their brothers and search for a bitter isolation from them, but they could never depart from God and His love. "
INteresting interesting interesting stuff PoW. So much to say-so little time...
gotta run
love
selah
"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."
Scout Cloud Lee | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/23/2004 3:52 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
The Easter Sermon of John Chrysostom
Pastor of Constantinople (~400 AD)
Is there anyone who is a devout lover of God?
Let them enjoy this beautiful bright festival!
Is there anyone who is a grateful servant?
Let them rejoice and enter into the joy of their Lord!
Are there any weary with fasting?
Let them now receive their wages!
If any have toiled from the first hour,
let them receive their due reward;
If any have come after the third hour,
let him with gratitude join in the Feast!
And he that arrived after the sixth hour,
let him not doubt; for he too shall sustain no loss.
And if any delayed until the ninth hour,
let him not hesitate; but let him come too.
And he who arrived only at the eleventh hour,
let him not be afraid by reason of his delay.
For the Lord is gracious and receives the last even as the first.
He gives rest to him that comes at the eleventh hour,
as well as to him that toiled from the first.
To this one He gives, and upon another He bestows.
He accepts the works as He greets the endeavor.
The deed He honors and the intention He commends.
Let us all enter into the joy of the Lord!
First and last alike receive your reward;
rich and poor, rejoice together!
Sober and slothful, celebrate the day!
You that have kept the fast, and you that have not,
rejoice today for the Table is richly laden!
Feast royally on it, the calf is a fatted one.
Let no one go away hungry. Partake, all, of the cup of faith.
Enjoy all the riches of His goodness!
Let no one grieve at his poverty,
for the universal kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again;
for forgiveness has risen from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the Death of our Savior has set us free.
He has destroyed it by enduring it.
He destroyed Hades when He descended into it.
He put it into an uproar even as it tasted of His flesh.
Isaiah foretold this when he said,
"You, O Hell, have been troubled by encountering Him below."
Hell was in an uproar because it was done away with.
It was in an uproar because it is mocked.
It was in an uproar, for it is destroyed.
It is in an uproar, for it is annihilated.
It is in an uproar, for it is now made captive.
Hell took a body, and discovered God.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see.
O death, where is thy sting?
O Hades, where is thy victory?
Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!
Christ is Risen, and the evil ones are cast down!
Christ is Risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is Risen, and life is liberated!
Christ is Risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead;
for Christ having risen from the dead,
is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
To Him be Glory and Power forever and ever. Amen!
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/23/2004 3:53 PM (GMT -6) | | Those under persecution at the time Revelations was written recognized that the antichrist was Nero  .
But in the century following, and continuing, it didn't get used in church. It got shelved (still in scripture, but not read publicly) because the "wackos" made such a mess of its symbolism.
Lets not buy into that sort of thing now. ("Know that Ken Taylor's "The Livine Bible" has hilicopters in the narrative of Revelations. And Hal Lindsay had the second coming in 1984!) | | Back to Top | | |
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scott_jorgenson
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 271
| Posted 6/23/2004 8:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by jefscott
Scott,
What does it mean to say a text is "apocalyptic" and why does that mean it is not "literal" in the way NON-apocalyptic text is?
An apocalyptic text is one that gives prophetic utterances couched in cryptic or fantastical imagery and picturing (generally through the device of a vision, often mediated by a spiritual being such as an angel) God's direct (not merely providential) intervention in human affairs, generally to judge or bring about an end of things. For example, most of Daniel from chapter 7 onward is apocalyptic. Jesus' Olivet Discourse is apocalyptic. Parts of Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah are apocalyptic, as are some of the minor prophets like Zechariah. This genre of writing is accordingly called apocalypse.
The reason scholars have to recognize apocalypse as a literary genre of the time, is the wide variety of texts that exhibit apocalyptic imagery which date exclusively from the time and place of the Middle East between several hundred years B.C. and one or two hundred years A.D. Most, if not all, known apocalyptic writings come from that place during that time. For example, all the biblical examples I just mentioned come from that cultural and historical context. In addition many non-biblical Jewish apocalypses are also known from that same context, like 4 Ezra, some of the Dead Sea Scrolls like the War Scroll I believe, the Sibylline Oracles, 2 Baruch, and especially parts of 1 Enoch. Like this, from chapter 93 of 1 Enoch, called "The Apocalypse of Weeks" (starting at verse 1):
quote:
And after that Enoch both gave and began to recount from the books. And Enoch said:
'Concerning the children of righteousness and concerning the elect of the world, and concerning the plant of uprightness, I will speak these things, yea, I Enoch will declare (them) unto you, my sons, according to that which appeared to me in the heavenly vision, and which I have known through the word of the holy angels, and have learnt from the heavenly tablets.'
And Enoch began to recount from the books and said:
'I was born the seventh in the first week, while judgement and righteousness still endured.
And after me there shall arise in the second week great wickedness, and deceit shall have sprung up; and in it there shall be the first end. And in it a man shall be saved; and after it is ended unrighteousness shall grow up, and a law shall be made for the sinners...
So here we have visions, tablets, books, angelic mediators, and a cryptic prophecy of "weeks" (vaguely reminiscent of Daniel 9). It continues to the end times where we encounter other familiar motifs like the destruction, God's victory, and the new heaven and earth (starting at verse 14, chapter 91, out of order):
quote:
And after that, in the ninth week, the righteous judgement shall be revealed to the whole world, and all the works of the godless shall vanish from all the earth, and the world shall be written down for destruction.
And after this, in the tenth week in the seventh part, there shall be the great eternal judgement, in which He will execute vengeance amongst the angels. And the first heaven shall depart and pass away, and a new heaven shall appear, and all the powers of the heavens shall give sevenfold light.
Even outside apocryphal Jewish books of the time like this, apocalyptic imagery is found in the writings of surrounding influential cultures too. Like this, which I take from Craig Hill's book In God's Time:
quote:
The Bahman Yasht records a series of cryptic visions given to the prophet Zarathustra, founder of Zoroastrianism:
quote:
He...saw a tree with four branches, one of gold, one of silver, one of steel, and one of mixed iron. Ahura Mazda (the deity) explained the vision, saying that the four branches were four kingdoms...
So we see cryptic motifs in this pagan Persian literature of the same time which are reminiscent of Daniel's four beasts (chapter 7) and statue of four elements (chapter 2).
What does all this mean? Well some liberals and skeptics might use such comparisons to write it all off as fantasy, but some conservatives err equally in the other direction, I think, by ignoring these parallels. What it means, in my opinion, is that the cultures of the Middle East at that time shared a style of prophetic utterance and communication that we could expect God's inspiration to draw from and utilize, much as it also utilized elements of the material (chariots, swords, pottery, etc) and social (slavery, male dominance, etc) culture to express truth without explicitly and literally endorsing them.
So, I think we can be fairly confident and comfortable in identifying Daniel 12, the Olivet Discourse, and John's Revelation as apocalyptic based on the common tradition of imagery and motifs they contain. If I could make an analogy: the short story, as a literary genre, comes from the Western world between the 19th and (so far) 21st centuries A.D. So in the same way that future scholars will be able to pick up a 50-page-or-less narrative, dating to England in the 20th century, and featuring such characteristic short story elements as plot, character development, climax and so forth, and conclude that they probably have an example of the short story genre on their hands - in that same way, scholars can identify apocalypses from the elements they have exclusively in common with other similar examples from the same general time and place, and there's no apriori reason to consider the Bible exempt from this.
Now, given this stuff is apocalyptic, what reason is there to also believe that it was not necessarily intended literally? First, many of the images used in apocalypse are particularly fantastical, and that suggests that there is a strong non-literal element to apocalypse. For example, the new Jerusalem in Revelation is a huge cube some 1400 miles long per side, and is pictured as descending from heaven to earth. Fantastic beasts such as in Ezekiel's opening, Daniel's four beasts from the sea, and of course the many creatures in Revelation are at-least-seemingly clearly symbolic. And astronomical events like the literal stars falling literally to earth are simply impossible, in this universe at least, given what we now know about the relative sizes of those objects.
But more importantly, there are direct biblical clues that this stuff was not necessarily intended literally too. In Isaiah 34 there is an oracle against the nations which focuses on the destruction of Edom, but dresses the prophecy in apocalyptic imagery (Isaiah 34:2-5, NRSV):
quote:
For the LORD is enraged against all the nations, and furious against all their hoards; he has doomed them, has given them over for slaughter. Their slain shall be cast out, and the stench of their corpses shall rise; the mountains shall flow with their blood. All the host of heaven shall rot away, and the skies roll up like a scroll. All their host shall wither like a leaf withering on a vine, or fruit withering on a fig tree. When my sword has drunk its fill in the heavens, lo, it will descend upon Edom, upon the people I have doomed to judgment.
Now scholars and archaeologists know that Edom was a literal pagan kingdom often in conflict with Israel, and eventually conquered by Babylon, at which point they were destroyed as, and ceased to ever again be, an independent people. Further the surrounding context of Isaiah 34 is prophetic utterance against Assyria and warning to Israel and Judah - again dealing with real kingdoms. So there is no in-context reason to suppose the references here to "Edom" are figurative or otherwise non-literal. But notice how the stars (the host of heaven) are destroyed and the sky "rolled up like a scroll" in conjunction with God's very real and literal judgment against Edom. Clearly that did not happen, and so it would appear to be meant non-literally - as an underscoring of the earth-shattering (to the Edomites) nature of the judgment.
Some conservatives, interestingly, take an opposite approach in interpreting this passage. They accept the apocalyptic imagery as basically literal, and thus conclude that Edom itself is a symbol, or at best a literal prefiguring of the eventual destruction of all the nations of the world at the end times. But which is the more reasonable inference - given that the judgment against Edom was clearly literal - and given the commonality of the apocalyptic imagery (stars and sky coming to an end) with other sources in which we have reason to believe such imagery was used for traditional and dramatic effect.
So I conclude that apocalyptic imagery in the Bible comes from a time and place, with an intent in mind, that does not allow it to necessarily be taken as straightforward data - data to be harmonized with one another and used to extrapolate actual events in future space-time history. Rather the imagery is used for dramatic effect, and was well-understood as such at the time, to underscore and emphasize in vivid and memorable fashion the basic theological truths about God's eventual victory: that God cares about our earhtly affairs, that the world he has made will sometime end, and that all who have ever lived will then face God in peace or wrath according to their affairs.
Best regards,
Scott
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