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spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 10/27/2004 10:12 AM (GMT -6)

Lock: Satan will have succeeded in drawing more people away from God then God could draw to Himself!

Spen: I don't believe that any purpose of God is thwarted. Satan only "succeeds" in as much as God allows. "no purpose of Yours can be thwarted."

Spen Lake

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 10/27/2004 10:30 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by lock

Second and Spark-

Why is evil in the world?

Talk about incongruities, such irony we find in the guilty ones placing God on trial.

Uh?

You both have your opinions about my belief in God's purpose and divine plan for mankind, I simply would like to hear yours.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 10/27/2004 11:30 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by lock

Second and Spark-

Why is evil in the world?

Talk about incongruities, such irony we find in the guilty ones placing God on trial.

Uh?

You both have your opinions about my belief in God's purpose and divine plan for mankind, I simply would like to hear yours.

I hold to the warfare world view. Man… oh man… oh man, yes we are the reason for evil. Why does God tolerate his creation? -- Out of Love.

Love is not without risks, it comes with a price tag called freedom. With the risk of freedom comes the choice to do otherwise, the potential of evil. Evil

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 10/28/2004 6:49 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Love is not without risks, it comes with a price tag called freedom. With the risk of freedom comes the choice to do otherwise, the potential of evil.

So, even though you do not agree with my view, you believe that the PURPOSE for evil in the world is so that it ensures man has freedom of choice, correct?

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Moderators Second Cousin
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 85

Posted 10/28/2004 7:08 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock
So, even though you do not agree with my view, you believe that the PURPOSE for evil in the world is so that it ensures man has freedom of choice, correct?

God doesn't have a purpose for evil.

God has a purpose for good.

Satan has a purpose for evil.

Here's an example:

Timberwolves are playing the Lakers.

The Timberwolves have a purpose for Garnett scoring.
The Timberwolves do NOT have a purpose for Bryant scoring.

The Lakers have a purpose for Bryant scoring.
The Lakers do NOT have a purpose for Garnett scoring.

"Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 10/28/2004 8:59 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock

quote:
Love is not without risks, it comes with a price tag called freedom. With the risk of freedom comes the choice to do otherwise, the potential of evil.

So, even though you do not agree with my view, you believe that the PURPOSE for evil in the world is so that it ensures man has freedom of choice, correct?

NO, NO, NO Lock...you are manipulating your original question and my response.

The PURPOSE is love. Evil is a perversion of love. The purpose of love is to Glorify God.

You seem to suggest that I exalt man (not God) by giving him LFW, while in truth you are convicting God of evil. This is in sharp contrast with my view of placing the guilt of evil on the lap of man.

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 10/28/2004 11:12 AM (GMT -6)

Spark-

I have stated that God has a purpose for evil in His creation. I hold to the truth that moral evil (sin) is never found in God. Moral evil should be placed in the lap of man and Satan for that matter. But you are correct that I believe you exult man by holding to LFW. So the purpose of allowing evil in the world is love? So, in order for God to allow a small minority of His creation to have the chance to develop love and appreciation for Him, He has to HATE the majority of His creation who, for no apparent reason except they just don't want to accept Him? What about those who have never heard the gospel message?

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

SwanLake
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 116

Posted 10/28/2004 11:23 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock
I have stated that God has a purpose for evil in His creation. I hold to the truth that moral evil (sin) is never found in God.

You believe He creates it. Then it is found in God.

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients.
But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces,
and this is what annoys me." -- Jack Handey

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 11/1/2004 7:04 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by SwanLake

quote:
Originally posted by lock
I have stated that God has a purpose for evil in His creation. I hold to the truth that moral evil (sin) is never found in God.

You believe He creates it. Then it is found in God.

No, in Isaiah 45:7 God states He creates evil. The Old Testament has many passages which speak of God bring about evil to meet His purposes. The bible also states that God does not sin. Moral evil is sin. God can bring about evil without sinning. There is an obvious difference between moral evil and just plain evil. God created beings capable of sinning, does this make Him a sinner? If God did not have a purpose for created man this way then He Himself would have "missed the mark" because His creation would be a failure.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 11/3/2004 7:47 AM (GMT -6)

Getting back to the concept of Good contrasting Evil and visa versa...
The tree in the garden was named the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Foremost it was the tree of the knowledge of Good and it appears that in order to fully understand Good, the knowledge of Evil is a necessity. Compare the 10 commandments. They tell us what is Good by explaining what is Evil!

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Eeyore
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 15

Posted 11/3/2004 8:11 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock

Getting back to the concept of Good contrasting Evil and visa versa...

You'd never know having arms and legs were good unless you cut them off, right?

Sometimes the lack of something is NOT evil but just the lack of something.

I don't have a pony. This is NOT evil, it's just, I don't have a pony. I don't need evil in order to experience how good it would be to have a pony.

Eyebrow

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