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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/9/2004 9:10 AM (GMT -6) |   | *Moved from the "Paint Me A Picture Of Community" thread that Moon River J started:
Community is sooooooo haaaaaarrrddddd! I'm not very good at the social aspect of being human so it's especially difficult for me to not be a fair-weather friend. But, one thing I've noticed about the many, many different small groups I've been in over the years.....often there's one person that is in some way socially inept and extremely emotionally needy and he or she is exceedingly difficult to deal with and most people don't even really want to be around them. I can think of three examples. First, one guy was obviously very needy and tended to vie for attention by interrupting people, being long-winded and making snide comments disguised as prayer during group prayer time. He even used to try to greet the women with a kiss using the Biblical passage in which Paul admonished the believers of his day to greet one another with a holy kiss. And when the women didn't want to, he'd get very upset and try to preach that verse to everyone.
In the second group another guy was also very emotionally needy. There were about seven guys and eight gals in that group and he almost obsessively pursued all of us women in the group without any sense of boundaries. He'd give us unwanted gifts, call us up with unwanted phonecalls, and corner us at get-togethers in unwanted conversation.
The third guy in the last group is the same way. He's long-winded, constantly brings up every last little emotional issue he has and his problems with his family and job during what little group discussion time we have, and he repeats the same old stuff over and over again at each meeting. He's deeply depressed and talks of suicide and has even attempted it, I think, but his personality is such that no guys really want to get close to him. The men in all three of these groups didn't want to get close to any of these guys.
In a way, I sort of blame the men in these groups for not befriending and mentoring these guys. I mean they kept trying to get all sorts of love and attention from the women, when what they really needed was male friendship so that they'd learn acceptance and self-esteem so they wouldn't think they needed a woman to solve all their problems.
One thing about being a Christian is that we're the ones who have to take in the unwanted ones - the ones that the world doesn't want to have to deal with. Because we're Christians we have to accept everyone with open arms. I've found this to be extremely frustrating because we're often forced to deal with people who should really be seeing professional therapists or ministers trained in dealing with emotionally unhealthy people. How as a Christian and as a leader of a Christian small group can you deal with a person like this sensitively? Personally I don't even want them around and I know others feel the same way, even though they won't admit it. What would Jesus tell us to do with these people who we would never, on our own, choose to hang out with? Because if they join our groups and keep coming back we're essentially stuck with them.
Tigress 
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 11/9/2004 6:29 PM (GMT -6) | | This probably isn't the answer you are looking for, but being a man, I would not want to join a small group that had women in it. Maybe you just need to stick with a womens group, so you don't have to worry about those types of problems. Maybe they just gravitate toward women because they are generally more sensitive? I don't know. I do think they need to be in a mens group though. Although there is that thing called self-sacrificial love however. And that means serving at your own cost. It's funny when we are told this at church, to love sacrificially. The thing is though we are told the exact opposite at other times. You did it in your post. You spend your whole post giving examples of difficult people, blaming the men, chalking it up to they need to see a therapist. And then you say that we need to take in the downcast, the people who are not wanted. Which is it? Self-sacrificial love costs. It kind of sounds like you are just thinking about yourself. I would either join an all womens group or stay home. Hope that helps.
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quest for truth
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 11/9/2004 7:02 PM (GMT -6) | | Tigressquote:
Personally I don't even want them around and I know others feel the same way, even though they won't admit it. What would Jesus tell us to do with these people who we would never, on our own, choose to hang out with? Because if they join our groups and keep coming back we're essentially stuck with them.
WOW! What a dilemma. I do not think you are called to do things that are outside of your talents or giftings. I think we ALL are called to love but that does not mean we have to be in a small group with just anyone. I think a small group should be a place where one is comfortable. If having this type of men around is not comfortable for you then either you have to move on or not allow just anyone in. There are groups that are designed for people to deal with their needs. Your small group CAN have boundaries without being unloving.
One option you may want to exercise with the next "needy" man/woman is to honestly, lovingly confront the individual if they are being inappropriate with social issues. Healthy groups need boundaries and the boundaries need to be respected by all the members. Tigress, you get to have boundaries on what you will and won't accept as gifts. Just because someone gives you a gift does not mean that you have to accept the gift. Wounded people sometimes do not have healthy boundaries so they may be ignorant of appropriate gestures....
The last resort for you as a leader may be to ask the disruptive person to find another group. Some groups fit and some don't but "stuck" is not something God wants us to remain in. If you feel this way towards someone they are better being sent away then being amidst a group of people who feel "stuck" with them.
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1Heart
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Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 11/10/2004 10:24 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
*Moved from the "Paint Me A Picture Of Community" thread that Moon River J started:
Community is sooooooo haaaaaarrrddddd! I'm not very good at the social aspect of being human so it's especially difficult for me to not be a fair-weather friend. But, one thing I've noticed about the many, many different small groups I've been in over the years.....often there's one person that is in some way socially inept and extremely emotionally needy and he or she is exceedingly difficult to deal with and most people don't even really want to be around them.
(Jo-Anne) Tigress, as to the above...that's all of us, at one time or another.
(Tigress) I can think of three examples. First, one guy was obviously very needy and tended to vie for attention by interrupting people, being long-winded and making snide comments disguised as prayer during group prayer time. He even used to try to greet the women with a kiss using the Biblical passage in which Paul admonished the believers of his day to greet one another with a holy kiss. And when the women didn't want to, he'd get very upset and try to preach that verse to everyone.
(Jo-Anne) The man needs to be taken aside, loving, but firmly, and talked to. You can't "kiss" people that don't want to be kissed! (Even hugs can get dicy).
(Tigress)In the second group another guy was also very emotionally needy. There were about seven guys and eight gals in that group and he almost obsessively pursued all of us women in the group without any sense of boundaries. He'd give us unwanted gifts, call us up with unwanted phonecalls, and corner us at get-togethers in unwanted conversation.
(Jo-Anne) Sounds lonely. I've been there too...it's a human condition.
(Tigress)The third guy in the last group is the same way. He's long-winded, constantly brings up every last little emotional issue he has and his problems with his family and job during what little group discussion time we have, and he repeats the same old stuff over and over again at each meeting. He's deeply depressed and talks of suicide and has even attempted it, I think, but his personality is such that no guys really want to get close to him. The men in all three of these groups didn't want to get close to any of these guys.
(Jo-Anne) That is heart-wrenching. So many people are desperately seeking the safety of community, and what is really sad is that they are often not finding it. This fellow needs someone to walk along side of him, and love him, and it needs to be a man.
(Tigress)In a way, I sort of blame the men in these groups for not befriending and mentoring these guys. I mean they kept trying to get all sorts of love and attention from the women, when what they really needed was male friendship so that they'd learn acceptance and self-esteem so they wouldn't think they needed a woman to solve all their problems.
(Jo-Anne) Women are often more nurturning (often). I know (I'm one).
(Tigress)One thing about being a Christian is that we're the ones who have to take in the unwanted ones - the ones that the world doesn't want to have to deal with. Because we're Christians we have to accept everyone with open arms. I've found this to be extremely frustrating because we're often forced to deal with people who should really be seeing professional therapists or ministers trained in dealing with emotionally unhealthy people. How as a Christian and as a leader of a Christian small group can you deal with a person like this sensitively? Personally I don't even want them around and I know others feel the same way, even though they won't admit it. What would Jesus tell us to do with these people who we would never, on our own, choose to hang out with? Because if they join our groups and keep coming back we're essentially stuck with them.
(Jo-Anne) Jesus was stuck with sinners too. In fact, he's stuck on you! (sounds like a bandaid commercial, doesn't it?) Everyone has different gifts, and limitations Tigress. You just need to do what He is asking you to do, and let Him do the rest (with the rest). I know...it's easier "said than done."
'Nite and God Bless...sounds like every church I know!
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/11/2004 6:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Okay, one person has said to have only same-sex groups, one said to lovingly ask the problem person to leave and the other said to just do what God guides me to do.
Re: same-sex groups - The biblical example is mixed gender groups (small house churches which is what these small groups are supposed to be, in my church at least) and I think that both genders can learn much more from each other than same-sex groups ever could. We're talking here about one bad apple in a bunch. (Those three examples I gave happened in 3 different groups, so it wasn't like all the guys behaved that way.) I just think that the men need to step up when one of their own isn't behaving the way a healthy man should behave. And women should do likewise when a woman behaves in ways contrary to a healthy woman. I've done all-women groups before, but I prefer to also have the company of men. I get along better with guys generally anyway.
Re: lovingly asking the problem person to leave - Is this really what Jesus would have us do? I mean, all people have different areas where they're broken and don't function right. How can we say "Don't come back until you get better." to certain people, and not to others or to anyone at all? Doesn't that defeat our whole purpose? But, on the other hand, like I said before, unless we're professionally trained in dealing with emotionally unhealthy people, the most we could ever do is be friends to them, which as I said, no one in the group ever seems to want to do precisely because these people are so screwed up and emotionally draining.
Re: following God's guidance about this matter - That's what I'm unclear about and why I'm asking for your opinions. I don't know what God wants me to do about these things. I can only guess that He'd probably want me to do the hardest thing which is to allow them to stay, and somehow try to control them from monopolizing the group meeting with their issues, but that is so emotionally draining for me, and everyone.
HELP!
Tigress
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
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1Heart
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Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 11/11/2004 9:15 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
Okay, one person has said to have only same-sex groups, one said to lovingly ask the problem person to leave and the other said to just do what God guides me to do.
Re: same-sex groups - The biblical example is mixed gender groups (small house churches which is what these small groups are supposed to be, in my church at least) and I think that both genders can learn much more from each other than same-sex groups ever could. We're talking here about one bad apple in a bunch. (Those three examples I gave happened in 3 different groups, so it wasn't like all the guys behaved that way.) I just think that the men need to step up when one of their own isn't behaving the way a healthy man should behave. And women should do likewise when a woman behaves in ways contrary to a healthy woman. I've done all-women groups before, but I prefer to also have the company of men. I get along better with guys generally anyway.
Re: lovingly asking the problem person to leave - Is this really what Jesus would have us do? I mean, all people have different areas where they're broken and don't function right. How can we say "Don't come back until you get better." to certain people, and not to others or to anyone at all? Doesn't that defeat our whole purpose? But, on the other hand, like I said before, unless we're professionally trained in dealing with emotionally unhealthy people, the most we could ever do is be friends to them, which as I said, no one in the group ever seems to want to do precisely because these people are so screwed up and emotionally draining.
Re: following God's guidance about this matter - That's what I'm unclear about and why I'm asking for your opinions. I don't know what God wants me to do about these things. I can only guess that He'd probably want me to do the hardest thing which is to allow them to stay, and somehow try to control them from monopolizing the group meeting with their issues, but that is so emotionally draining for me, and everyone.
HELP!
Tigress, I believe if it is a man, it is best to have a man (one who can handle it with grace, but firmness) to talk to him. I know there are exceptions to this, but they are rare. I have brothers in Christ that I can talk to, but that is because I have Christ-centered relationships with them, and there is a mutual respect for each other, and for boundaries. Most times I think it is wiser to involve someone of the same sex (not have same sex Bible studies). God created us male and female, so having the perspective of both genders in Bible studies is wonderful.
It's obvious that you care about doing the right thing, and that is compassionate.
Sounds like you might need to hand this over to someone, not because you couldn't or shouldn't handle it, but it does sound like it is taking a toll on you. I've found that I need to do that at different times in my life, depending on what's happening for me with my health, or my family, or...
It's not a sign of weakness, it's wisdom. And sometimes it can be far more loving to let others deal with things that are draining for us, not to mention affirming the gift that you see in someone else to handle these things. Please pick someone gracious though! 
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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quest for truth
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 11/11/2004 9:30 AM (GMT -6) | | Tigressquote:
Re: lovingly asking the problem person to leave - Is this really what Jesus would have us do? I mean, all people have different areas where they're broken and don't function right. How can we say "Don't come back until you get better." to certain people, and not to others or to anyone at all? Doesn't that defeat our whole purpose? But, on the other hand, like I said before, unless we're professionally trained in dealing with emotionally unhealthy people, the most we could ever do is be friends to them, which as I said, no one in the group ever seems to want to do precisely because these people are so screwed up and emotionally draining
Tigress, I mentioned asking the person to leave if this is too much for YOU. In my opinion, a small group should be a safe place for people to gather. If a person is NOT being accepted due to "needy" behavior OR if you are feeling that boundaries are not being respected (groups need boundaries) THEN you either must lovingly confront the individual that is causing the chaos and/or have the person find another group which will welcome them in.
I said that we are ALL called to love but not everyone is gifted with dealing with certain issues. If the person is needing more than your small group can give then the most loving, logical thing seems to be to help them find a better fit. Honestly, do any of us want to be in a group where the people "tolerate" us because they HAVE to or would we prefer to be asked to leave (in a loving way) so perhaps we might find a place where we fit?
God does not ask us to carry ALL of the burdens of the world on our shoulders; God commands us to love. Sometimes love is doing what is in the best interest of the other even if it's hard to do.
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/11/2004 10:19 AM (GMT -6) | | In my small group, it's the responsibility of the group leader to keep all the nuts in line.
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Albert Einstein
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Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 83
| Posted 11/11/2004 10:33 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/11/2004 10:48 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Albert Einstein
I take it you're wet alot....
Hey, you’re never lonely amongst friends. | | Back to Top | | |
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quest for truth
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 11/11/2004 6:14 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
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Jo-Anne: Tigress, I believe if it is a man, it is best to have a man (one who can handle it with grace, but firmness) to talk to him.
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Ditto. How hard would it be for one of the males to say, "Hey, it is not culturally proper to kiss women as a mere greeting, so try to be more sensitive to their feelings?" They could even do it outside of the meeting so as not to embarass. If the guy is still resistant, you're dealing with a REAL problem person.
The obstacle that appears to be present in the small group that Tigress is a part is that the men are NOT willing/open to reaching out to the "needy" males. In such a circumstance, where the women (like Tigress) are feeling annoyed and expressing, "Personally I don't even want them around and I know others feel the same way, even though they won't admit it", I believe the LOVING gesture for a "needy" man in this particular group is to be kindly, gently asked to leave. I don't think it's healthy for the man nor the group.
Who would want to be one of the "needy" men? I would rather be told I'm not welcome than have people "tolerate" me and then resent "having" to love me behind my back.
Who wants to be forced to tolerate people just because they're a Christian. I believe this type of belief makes Christianity look undesirable. We are called to love but not called to minister to everyone. Sometimes it's more loving to pass the person on. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/12/2004 4:30 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by quest for truth
quote:
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Jo-Anne: Tigress, I believe if it is a man, it is best to have a man (one who can handle it with grace, but firmness) to talk to him.
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Ditto. How hard would it be for one of the males to say, "Hey, it is not culturally proper to kiss women as a mere greeting, so try to be more sensitive to their feelings?" They could even do it outside of the meeting so as not to embarass. If the guy is still resistant, you're dealing with a REAL problem person.
The obstacle that appears to be present in the small group that Tigress is a part is that the men are NOT willing/open to reaching out to the "needy" males. In such a circumstance, where the women (like Tigress) are feeling annoyed and expressing, "Personally I don't even want them around and I know others feel the same way, even though they won't admit it", I believe the LOVING gesture for a "needy" man in this particular group is to be kindly, gently asked to leave. I don't think it's healthy for the man nor the group.
Who would want to be one of the "needy" men? I would rather be told I'm not welcome than have people "tolerate" me and then resent "having" to love me behind my back.
Who wants to be forced to tolerate people just because they're a Christian. I believe this type of belief makes Christianity look undesirable. We are called to love but not called to minister to everyone. Sometimes it's more loving to pass the person on.
Another problem is that there's no one or place to pass the needy person on to.
Tigress
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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Laplace
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138
| Posted 11/12/2004 6:30 AM (GMT -6) | | Tigress,
I would say the problem is rather NP-Hard myself.
First of all, NP-Complete is a computer science term which basically says that a non-deterministic problem can be solved in polynomial time. For a computer, it would take an exponentially long time (most popular example is chess programs). The "complete" part means that the problem is at least as hard as any other NP problem.
Anyway, regarding the comments here, I would say with the observations listed (there probably is more to the story, but I have to take it for what it is right now) that I agree it is best for these guys to have close male friendships, either formally in a men's group at church or outside of it. It sounds like they are uncomfortable with their singleness (Not a big deal. Many singles are) and they are using unhealthy ways to cope with it (Is a big deal).
The problem comes into play as you've said that "no one" wants to mentor these guys or show them that their behavior isn't helping the community. I think this is where some of the "blame" falls on the group. Since when is restoring a brother in Christ an option? Jesus himself said that we ought to resolve issues with our brother before offering our sacrifices. Simply ignoring the problem guys hoping they will get their act together on their own or go away is not the correct approach.
Problem is, you're a girl, and not the best candidate to bring it up to them. Might compound the problem. So if you do feel conviction over this perhaps discuss it with the group leader (be it male or female) and have him/her decide how to handle it. Then have the leader discuss the problem to each person individually (Might have to bring in a guy if the leader is also female). It should not be brought before the entire group before unless those avenues have been exhausted.
A larger question though is how do single groups approach the whole "relationship" question. Conventions have been to either say nothing or explicity discourage the practice. Personally, I don't agree with this. Reason, is that most singles DO desire marriage, and just minimizing the need can generate resentment and cynicism (esp when most of what they see in the church is emphasis on marriage and family). Rather, be open about it but ask that pursuits be done in a God-honoring way and always considerate of the other person (Meaning, if a person is not interested in a relationship at this time, to honor the request).
"I say we blast the meatbag, Master" -HK-47, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/12/2004 7:10 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Laplace
First of all, NP-Complete is a computer science term which basically says that a non-deterministic problem can be solved in polynomial time. For a computer, it would take an exponentially long time (most popular example is chess programs). The "complete" part means that the problem is at least as hard as any other NP problem.
Oh... this gender issue should be resolved with computer science, ok:
A French teacher was explaining to her class that in French, unlike
English, nouns are designated as either masculine or feminine.
"House" for instance, is feminine: ''la maison.'' ''Pencil,'' however, is masculine: ''le crayon.''
A student asked, "What gender is 'computer'?"
Instead of giving the answer, the teacher split the class into two
groups, male and female, and asked them to decide for themselves
whether "computer" should be a masculine or a feminine noun.
Each group was asked to give four reasons for its recommendation.
The men's group decided that ''computer'' should definitely be of
the feminine gender (''la computer''), because:
1. No one but their creator understands their internal logic;
2. The native language they use to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else;
3. Even the smallest mistakes are stored in long term memory for
possible later retrieval; and
4. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself
spending half your paycheck on accessories for it.
(No chuckling guys... this gets better!)
The women's group, however, concluded that computers should be
Masculine (''le computer''), because:
1. In order to do anything with them, you have to turn them on;
2. They have a lot of data but still can't think for themselves;
3. They are supposed to help you solve problems, but half the time
they are the problem; and
4. As soon as you commit to one, you realize that if you had waited
a little longer, you could have gotten a better model.
The women were declared winners.
LFW:
1. God makes the choice for all people. Those not selected for eternal life have grounds for complaint.
2. God invites all but only some respond. Those who don't respond don't have any grounds for complaint, they got what they wanted.
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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/12/2004 7:46 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Laplace
Tigress,
I would say the problem is rather NP-Hard myself.
First of all, NP-Complete is a computer science term which basically says that a non-deterministic problem can be solved in polynomial time. For a computer, it would take an exponentially long time (most popular example is chess programs). The "complete" part means that the problem is at least as hard as any other NP problem.
Anyway, regarding the comments here, I would say with the observations listed (there probably is more to the story, but I have to take it for what it is right now) that I agree it is best for these guys to have close male friendships, either formally in a men's group at church or outside of it. It sounds like they are uncomfortable with their singleness (Not a big deal. Many singles are) and they are using unhealthy ways to cope with it (Is a big deal).
The problem comes into play as you've said that "no one" wants to mentor these guys or show them that their behavior isn't helping the community. I think this is where some of the "blame" falls on the group. Since when is restoring a brother in Christ an option? Jesus himself said that we ought to resolve issues with our brother before offering our sacrifices. Simply ignoring the problem guys hoping they will get their act together on their own or go away is not the correct approach.
Problem is, you're a girl, and not the best candidate to bring it up to them. Might compound the problem. So if you do feel conviction over this perhaps discuss it with the group leader (be it male or female) and have him/her decide how to handle it. Then have the leader discuss the problem to each person individually (Might have to bring in a guy if the leader is also female). It should not be brought before the entire group before unless those avenues have been exhausted.
A larger question though is how do single groups approach the whole "relationship" question. Conventions have been to either say nothing or explicity discourage the practice. Personally, I don't agree with this. Reason, is that most singles DO desire marriage, and just minimizing the need can generate resentment and cynicism (esp when most of what they see in the church is emphasis on marriage and family). Rather, be open about it but ask that pursuits be done in a God-honoring way and always considerate of the other person (Meaning, if a person is not interested in a relationship at this time, to honor the request).
In the first two examples, I was only a member of the groups but in the third example I am now a leader. I prefer to not have a co-leader at all but I wonder if maybe it would be wise for groups to always have one man and one woman lead together, in order to meet the needs of the men and women within the group.
Being in a small group is one thing, but does God really call us to befriend every friendless person? There are plenty of emotionally needy women out there that I don't want to have anything to do with either. Even Jesus only had a core group of three: Peter, James and John, because He had His human limitations at the time. I was tremendously emotionally screwed up 7 years ago, like the men I described, and no one befriended me like I needed back then, either. I saw a counselor and started taking medication so now I'm better, but I could have also used some close friends, or at least one, for crying out loud. So, were they doing the right thing by not befriending me? Should I do the same thing in similar situations?
Tigress
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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Laplace
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138
| Posted 11/12/2004 8:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Tigress,
I think you may be confusing the term "friend" and "counselor". The two are not often the same.
First, let's look at the external behavior you mentioned. Unwanted kisses, monopolizing speaking time, etc. are things that should not occur in the group dynamic. It doesn't take a friend to say these are unacceptable in the group dynamic; simply a leader.
Now looking at the root cause of this, how to help these guys. First, it may be that they DON'T realize the way they are acting is repeling people away rather than drawing them closer to them. If they want community (which they do since they are there) then they can learn these skills. It doesn't take a friend to point that out either.
And if they are looking for friends (of the male or female persuasion), then one can always put a positive spin on these skills. Once you get a man to focus on something he greatly desires, he'll move heaven and earth to get it.
In summary, I think the solution here is to get the person to want to change rather than just having false friends. Once that occurs, friends will naturally gravitate towards them.
Finally Tigress, I do find it interesting that you say you don't want to befriend "emotionally needy" people. Truth is, we are all that way to some extent (it's just that the way people want fulfillment differs). And I know there are some people, if the right boundries are held, can become great friends dispite this "handicap". You advocate giving less-than-supermodel people a chance at relationships. How does that differ here?
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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/12/2004 8:09 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Laplace
Tigress,
I think you may be confusing the term "friend" and "counselor". The two are not often the same.
First, let's look at the external behavior you mentioned. Unwanted kisses, monopolizing speaking time, etc. are things that should not occur in the group dynamic. It doesn't take a friend to say these are unacceptable in the group dynamic; simply a leader.
Now looking at the root cause of this, how to help these guys. First, it may be that they DON'T realize the way they are acting is repeling people away rather than drawing them closer to them. If they want community (which they do since they are there) then they can learn these skills. It doesn't take a friend to point that out either.
And if they are looking for friends (of the male or female persuasion), then one can always put a positive spin on these skills. Once you get a man to focus on something he greatly desires, he'll move heaven and earth to get it.
In summary, I think the solution here is to get the person to want to change rather than just having false friends. Once that occurs, friends will naturally gravitate towards them.
Finally Tigress, I do find it interesting that you say you don't want to befriend "emotionally needy" people. Truth is, we are all that way to some extent (it's just that the way people want fulfillment differs). And I know there are some people, if the right boundries are held, can become great friends dispite this "handicap". You advocate giving less-than-supermodel people a chance at relationships. How does that differ here?
By emotionally needy people, I mean essentially emotionally screwed-up people. Does that clarify things?
The difference between giving not-so-good-looking people a chance and giving emotionally screwed-up people a chance is huge. No-so-good-looking people have nothing wrong with them at all. They're simply being judged based on their external appearance by others and that's the sin of those others. But, emotionally screwed-up people stress out and emotionally drain the others around them. Have you ever known a person like this? Because if you haven't, you can't possibly understand what I'm saying here and therefore are in no position to give an opinion one way or the other about this until you go through the pain and stress of dealing with these kinds of people constantly.
Tigress
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
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