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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/7/2005 10:24 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Culture War or Religious War?: The role of religion in politics

There is an all-out assault on religion and people of faith today. It is said that one of the deciding factors in the recent presidential election was the "moral values" vote. But is there really a place for religion in politics? Or how about your everyday life? Are you ever tempted to go against what you know is right because the current culture says you should? How about your church... is it attempting to please men or God?

Friday January 21, 2005 (7 PM) Panel Discussion: Is there a role of religion in politics? Panel features Janet & Craig Parshall representing the conservative evangelical view, Dr. Greg Boyd a mega-church pastor who has doubts that religion should influence politics, and Dan Barker a former pastor-turned atheist who says relgion needs to stay away from politics.

http://www.edentickets.com/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=153


Matthew 11:28-30 (NRSV) 
    "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."


 

 

Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/18/2005 3:40:45 PM (GMT-6)

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spenlake
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   Posted 1/7/2005 10:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting, Sparky

I agree with Greg on this one. Too bad but I think I will be out of town.


Spen Lake

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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/7/2005 10:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by spenlake

Interesting, Sparky

I agree with Greg on this one. Too bad but I think I will be out of town.



Be there or be square! Cool

Seriously, my wife and I have enjoyed these events. I’m looking forward to this one.

If your plans change let me know, I would be glad to introduce myself. I have only had the privilege to meet a few folks from the board.

e-mail: SparknHeart@riverking.com
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JEE
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   Posted 1/7/2005 10:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wonder if he'll call his opponents Nazis.


http://revivaltheology.net

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spenlake
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   Posted 1/7/2005 10:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by spenlake

Interesting, Sparky

I agree with Greg on this one. Too bad but I think I will be out of town.



Be there or be square! Cool

Seriously, my wife and I have enjoyed these events. I’m looking forward to this one.

If your plans change let me know, I would be glad to introduce myself. I have only had the privilege to meet a few folks from the board.

e-mail: SparknHeart@riverking.com

I'd love to go and meet you there, but it looks bad for now. I'm easy to recognize, I'm the one with the big mouth.


Spen Lake

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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/7/2005 11:02 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by JEE

Wonder if he'll call his opponents Nazis.


Johnny! Johnny! Johnny!
The roots of yourself afflicting wounds stem deep down into your heart. It’s weight is wearing on you, eating at the core of your good heart. Yes, it all stems from your lack of celebrating the joy of Christmas. Big Smile
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JEE
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   Posted 1/7/2005 11:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by JEE

Wonder if he'll call his opponents Nazis.


Johnny! Johnny! Johnny!
The roots of your self afflicting wounds stem deep down into your heart. It’s weight is wearing on you, eating at the core of your good heart. Yes, it all stems from your lack of celebrating Christmas. Big Smile




Ha! Not wounded, just a bit miffed.

It would be interesting to see, however, if Doc is as willing to boldly condemn "the Christian Right" in such an open debate by alluding to Hitler, etc., as he was in this forum.

JohnBandit


http://revivaltheology.net

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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/7/2005 11:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by JEE
It would be interesting to see, however, if Doc is as willing to boldly condemn "the Christian Right" in such an open debate by alluding to Hitler, etc., as he was in this forum.


Come and vist Minneapolis on the 21st and you can ask him in person.
They have a Q&A.

It would be good to see ya again. Approve We will be celebrating Martin Luther King day. Big Smile
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Mayflower
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   Posted 1/7/2005 12:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
.


Greetings, Brother:

You probably know this already; however, I thought I'd mention for those who aren't familiar with the area -- that North Heights Luthern Church (in Arden Hills, Minnesota) is a "stones throw" from Bethel College & Seminary -- in the greater Saint Paul area....

Excerpt:

Location: North Heights Lutheran
Arden Hills, MN
Contact:
Start Date/Time: Friday, January 21 @ 7:00 PM
End Date/Time: Saturday, January 22 @ 12:00 PM
Deadline: Thursday, January 20



Sounds like an awesome debate!
Thanks so much posting the link...


Peace & blessings,
<><

P.S. I always celebrate Martin Luther King Day, too.
Approve


Mark wrote:

quote:
Come and vist Minneapolis on the 21st and you can ask him in person.
They have a Q&A.




.





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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/7/2005 2:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Oh yes Arden Hills, just a fresh breathe of air away from the greater Minneapolis area...
The Twin Cities better half! Big Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Mayflower

Greetings, Brother:

You probably know this already; however, I thought I'd mention for those who aren't familiar with the area -- that North Heights Luthern Church (in Arden Hills, Minnesota) is a "stones throw" from Bethel College & Seminary -- in the greater Saint Paul area....






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One Love
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   Posted 1/7/2005 2:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting. Who's all going to this? I'm gonna be there...and I'd love to meet some of y'all in person! That'd be TIGHT.

What I look like...



Holla if ya see me there.

Why do I feel like I'm making a personal ad? Heh...


"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."

--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/8/2005 4:55 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As per: Friday January 21, 2005 (7 PM) Panel Discussion: Is there a role of religion in politics? Panel features Janet & Craig Parshall representing the conservative evangelical view, Dr. Greg Boyd a mega-church pastor who has doubts that religion should influence politics, and Dan Barker a former pastor-turned atheist who says relgion needs to stay away from politics.

Some ideas throughout a link at: http://merecomments.typepad.com/
 
Several individuals views can be found there, ranging across the spectrum. Specifically:

and 


(Moore is dean of the school of theology and senior vice president for academic administration at Southern Baptist Theology Seminary)



"We are free not because we can choose, but only when we have chosen well." - Hart

Post Edited (Swede) : 1/8/2005 6:10:27 PM (GMT-6)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/8/2005 7:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Posted is this: "Dr. Greg Boyd a mega-church pastor who has doubts that religion should influence politics..."
 
 
I think it was Colson (or someone else) who recently pointed out that the SAME protection exists between PRESS and Government and between RELIGION and Government.
 
If Press can look out for itself in presuring governement, then so can religous people.
 
 
How is that different, unrelated, or similar to the notion Boyd is represented for above?
 
Response?
 
 
 



"We are free not because we can choose, but only when we have chosen well." - Hart

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/8/2005 10:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Here's from the Moore article.

http://merecomments.typepad.com/merecomments/2005/01/harts_last_word.html

This does not seem "black and white"

Is the Kingdom of Christ a present or future reality? Is it spiritual or material? Is it the church or the world? Is it to be found in evangelizing the lost or in reclaiming the culture? Christians for centuries have debated the answers to these questions and a new book by Russell D. Moore provides an in-depth look at the consensus that has quietly developed within evangelicalism over the past century or so regarding the Kingdom of God.

In The Kingdom of Christ: The New Evangelical Perspective (Crossway Books), Moore — who serves as dean of the school of theology and senior vice president for academic administration at Southern Baptist Theology Seminary — examines these questions through the prism of evangelical political action.

“But that is not because the Kingdom is a tool to equip evangelicals for politics,” Moore writes. “It is not even because evangelical politics is all that important, in the greater scheme of things. Instead, it is because the failure of evangelical politics points us to something far more important that underlies it — the failure of evangelical theology.”

The failure is that of contemporary evangelical theology to engage politics. Moore calls on evangelical Christians to shape their identity by convictions about the Kingdom of God in Christ. “The new perspective on the Kingdom of God can define evangelical theology along the lines of the central themes of the Old and New Testament canon,” Moore writes. “In the end, a renewed focus on the Kingdom is essential if evangelicals are ever going to grapple with the evangel of a crucified, resurrected, and enthroned Messiah.

“As such, evangelicalism ought to become both more and less political. Evangelical theology will not serve an activist agenda to be an identity caucus in someone’s political party. But evangelical theology will remind Christians that the call to Christ is not a call to ‘go to heaven when you die,’ but instead a call to be ‘joint heirs’ with the Messiah who will inherit an all- encompassing Kingdom.”

How does this compare with the Parshalls Dr. Boyd and Mr. Barker?
 
 



"We are free not because we can choose, but only when we have chosen well." - Hart

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/8/2005 10:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here's where Moore takes it:

“Evangelical theologies of the Kingdom have led to two polar opposite approaches to political engagement: withdrawal or triumphalism,” Moore said. “One side persistently calls on evangelicals to withdraw from the public square and prepare for the coming of Christ. It beckons evangelicals to an alternative universe of evangelical sub-culture — a ‘Bizarro America’ where evangelicals have our own distinctly Christian popular culture, complete with Christian boy bands, Christian cartoon television networks, and Christian romance novels.

“On the other hand, some evangelicals have spoken as though America could be ‘claimed’ for Christ through enacting ‘Christian’ political legislation — complete with a ‘Christian’ view on everything from congressional term limits to the line item veto. These evangelicals have often vested political processes with so much hope that they are befuddled when political victories fail to stem the tide of the sexual revolution or the abortion culture.”

A Kingdom theology, Moore says, must inform the social and political engagement of Christians as well as their view of the world’s future. “Both evangelical withdrawal and evangelical triumphalism must be measured against a biblical vision of the Kingdom of God — a Kingdom the New Testament tells us is both “already” and “not yet,” present and yet future,” Moore said.

How does this (you who are planning to attend this talk) with the Parshalls Dr. Boyd and Mr. Barker?



"We are free not because we can choose, but only when we have chosen well." - Hart

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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/9/2005 3:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Swede said... A Kingdom theology, Moore says, must inform the social and political engagement of Christians as well as their view of the world’s future. “Both evangelical withdrawal and evangelical triumphalism must be measured against a biblical vision of the Kingdom of God — a Kingdom the New Testament tells us is both “already” and “not yet,” present and yet future,” ...

Amen Swede for posting such a balanced approach on such sensitive issues. It helps point out the contrasts between the two extreme positions that has polarized so many of us today.  - Thanks Mark

Post Edited (sparknheart) : 1/9/2005 2:14:19 PM (GMT-6)

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Laika
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   Posted 1/9/2005 10:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Swede said...
Here's where Moore takes it:
 
How does this (you who are planning to attend this talk) with the Parshalls Dr. Boyd and Mr. Barker?

We'll know better after the seminar.  Then we can talk about it.
 
 



Post Edited (Laika) : 1/10/2005 6:24:57 AM (GMT-6)

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selah
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   Posted 1/10/2005 7:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Seriously Laika, are you going to this? If so, I HAVE to meet you.
you will be my deciding factor... so let me know,ok?

love love,
selah


"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."

Scout Cloud Lee

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Corey
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   Posted 1/10/2005 9:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'll be there. I just purchased some tickets for me and my covenant group.
I'm guessing it will be a pretty biased crowd in favor of Janet Parshall.


 

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Laika
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   Posted 1/10/2005 9:59 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Corey said...
I'll be there. I just purchased some tickets for me and my covenant group.
I'm guessing it will be a pretty biased crowd in favor of Janet Parshall.

You will know the mood of the crowd by how many "uff da"s you hear.
 
Casseroles with crushed potato chip "garnish" will be available in the lobby.
 
 
 
 


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Laika
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   Posted 1/10/2005 10:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Selah said...
so are you guys getting these tickets online? Tell me I don't have to go anywhere in the freezing cold to get them and I'll be happy. :)

 
Bring your VISA because God don't take MasterCard.
 
 


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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/10/2005 5:22 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
sparknheart said...
Swede said... A Kingdom theology, Moore says, must inform the social and political engagement of Christians as well as their view of the world’s future. “Both evangelical withdrawal and evangelical triumphalism must be measured against a biblical vision of the Kingdom of God — a Kingdom the New Testament tells us is both “already” and “not yet,” present and yet future,” ...

Amen Swede for posting such a balanced approach on such sensitive issues. It helps point out the contrasts between the two extreme positions that has polarized so many of us today.  - Thanks Mark

Thanks.
 



"We are free not because we can choose, but only when we have chosen well." - Hart

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Laika
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   Posted 1/11/2005 8:59 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Got my $2 tickets which included the cryptic message, "It is advised that you dress warm and bring a lawn chair."
 
Whatever.....
 
c'ya there
 
 


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di
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   Posted 1/13/2005 2:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I'll be there quietly in the background gleaning as usual cool 


di

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Truth Aficionado
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   Posted 1/16/2005 10:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

For those that are getting a little hungry for this Friday's debate. Check out the following appetizer.burger  

http://www.whchurch.org/whchurch/pdfs/Christians-and-Abortion.pdf


You are what you eat - beware of what you’re fed.

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