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BJS
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Date Joined Dec 2001
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   Posted 10/27/2003 4:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
October 19, 2003
Losing a Church, Keeping the Faith
By ANDREW SULLIVAN

Last week, something quite banal happened at St. Benedict's Church in the Bronx. A gay couple were told they could no longer sing in the choir. Their sin was to have gotten a civil marriage license in Canada. One man had sung in the choir for 32 years; the other had joined the church 25 years ago. Both had received certificates from the church commending them for "noteworthy participation." But their marriage had gained publicity; it was even announced in The New York Times. This "scandal" led to their expulsion. The archbishop's spokesman explained that the priest had "an obligation" to exclude them.

In the grand scheme of things, this is a very small event. But it is a vivid example of why this last year has made the once difficult lives of gay Catholics close to impossible. The church has gone beyond its doctrinal opposition to emotional or sexual relationships between gay men and lesbians to an outspoken and increasingly shrill campaign against them. Gay relationships were described by the Vatican earlier this year as "evil." Gay couples who bring up children were described as committing the equivalent of "violence" against their own offspring. Gay men are being deterred from applying to seminaries and may soon be declared unfit for the priesthood, even though they commit to celibacy. The American Catholic church has endorsed a constitutional amendment that would strip gay couples of any civil benefits of any kind in the United States.

For the first time in my own life, I find myself unable to go to Mass. During the most heated bouts of rhetoric coming from the Vatican this summer, I felt tears of grief and anger welling up where once I had been able to contain them. Faith beyond resentment began to seem unreachable.

For some, the answer is as easy as it always has been. Leave, they say. The gay world looks at gay Catholics with a mixture of contempt and pity. The Catholic world looks at us as if we want to destroy an institution we simply want to belong to. So why not leave? In some ways, I suppose, I have. What was for almost 40 years a weekly church habit dried up this past year to close to nothing. Every time I walked into a church or close to one, the anger and hurt overwhelmed me. It was as if a dam of intellectual resistance to emotional distress finally burst.

But there was no comfort in this, no relief, no resolution. There is no ultimate meaning for me outside the Gospels, however hard I try to imagine it; no true solace but the Eucharist; no divine love outside of Christ and the church he guides. In that sense, I have not left the church because I cannot leave the church, no more than I can leave my family. Like many other gay Catholics, I love this church; for me, there is and never will be any other. But I realize I cannot participate in it any longer either. It would be an act of dishonesty to enable an institution that is now a major force for the obliteration of gay lives and loves; that covered up for so long the sexual abuse of children but uses the word "evil" for two gay people wanting to commit to each other for life.

I know what I am inside. I do not believe that my orientation is on a par with others' lapses into lust when they also have an option for sexual and emotional life that is blessed and celebrated by the church. I do not believe I am intrinsically sick or disordered, as the hierarchy teaches, although I am a sinner in many, many ways. I do not believe that the gift of human sexuality is always and everywhere evil outside of procreation. (Many heterosexual Catholics, of course, agree with me, but they can hide and pass in ways that gay Catholics cannot.) I believe that denying gay people any outlet for their deepest emotional needs is wrong. I think it slowly destroys people, hollows them out, alienates them finally from their very selves.

But I must also finally concede that this will not change as a matter of doctrine. That doctrine - never elaborated by Jesus - was constructed when gay people as we understand them today were not known to exist; but its authority will not change just because gay people now have the courage to explain who they are and how they feel. In fact, it seems as if the emergence of gay people into the light of the world has only intensified the church's resistance. That shift in the last few years from passive silence to active hostility is what makes the Vatican's current stance so distressing. Terrified of their own knowledge of the wide presence of closeted gay men in the priesthood, concerned that the sexual doctrines required of heterosexuals are under threat, the hierarchy has decided to draw the line at homosexuals. We have become the unwilling instruments of their need to reassert control.

In an appeal to the growing fundamentalism of the developing world, this is a shrewd strategy. In the global context, gays are easily expendable. But it is also a strikingly inhumane one. The current pope is obviously a deep and holy man; but that makes his hostility even more painful. He will send emissaries to terrorists, he will meet with a man who tried to assassinate him. But he has not and will not meet with openly gay Catholics. They are, to him, beneath dialogue. His message is unmistakable. Gay people are the last of the untouchables. We can exist in the church only by silence, by bearing false witness to who we are.

I was once more hopeful. I saw within the church's doctrines room for a humane view of homosexuality, a genuinely Catholic approach to including all nonprocreative people - the old, the infertile, the gay - in God's church. But I can see now that the dialogue is finally shutting down.

Perhaps a new pope will change things. But the odds are that hostility will get even worse. I revere those who can keep up the struggle within the channels of the church. I respect those who have left. But I am somewhere in between now.

There are moments in a spiritual life when the heart simply breaks. Some time in the last year, mine did. I can only pray that in some distant future, some other gay people not yet born will be able to come back to the church, to sing in the choir, and know that the only true scandal in the world is the scandal of God's love for his creation, all of it, all of us, in a church that may one day, finally, become home to us all.


Andrew Sullivan is a senior editor at The New Republic.


Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

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Tigress
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   Posted 10/28/2003 11:40 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Bible in the NT clearly states that church members who are actively living in sin, are to be expelled until they repent - meaning that they will stop actively and purposely sinning. That's what I'm assuming the Catholic church is doing here.

If however they're expelling gay people who recognize that they should not practice their sexuality and therefore don't, the church has gone too far.

If in this instance the former is true, whatever loss of love this gay person feels is really the separation he or she has caused to happen between him/her and Jesus. Sin separates us from Jesus. Purposely practicing any sin distances us from God and therefore wrecks our relationship with Him. If this person were to accept that his/her temptations to have sex with his/her own gender is a sin and repents of it, the relationship he/she wants to have with God and the church would be restored.


Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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GregBoyd
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   Posted 10/28/2003 12:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My heart breaks for Andrew Sullivan. You can just feel his deep pain in his writing. Whatever else one thinks about his orientation and conundrum, his point about pediphiles, terrorists and assassins being treated with more dignity, and less vile, than gays lands hard.

Doc


"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

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BJS
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   Posted 10/29/2003 2:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree, Doc. Andrew Sullivan is one of my favorite writers. He does not write about his sexuality very often, but when he does, it is powerful and moving.

On a related note, check out this sad story:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/28/cnna.zahn.access/index.html


Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

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Tigress
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   Posted 10/29/2003 8:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I feel bad for this guy too. It's difficult to be so alone. But, I can't help but think that he wouldn't be so alone if he'd just recognize that the reason he's alone is because he won't confess his ongoing sin. Then, his relationships with God and the Church would be restored - if the Church does the right thing and welcomes him back. Sometimes expulsion is the only way for a person to learn that their sin is real, and that they can't just keep purposely committing it anymore. Paul said to expel the immoral brother/sister (as a last resort of course) so that the person would learn the hard way, since he/she wouldn't learn the easier way before it was necessary to expel him/her.


Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
 
   Posted 10/30/2003 9:23 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BJS: check out this sad story:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/28/cnna.zahn.access/index.html


Doc: Not sure what is sadder. The expulsion, the deception to get the info, the breaking of confidence to spread the info, or the lying about the whole matter to cover it up.

Heh, but at least its a Christian school!!!!


"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

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BJS
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Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 587
 
   Posted 10/31/2003 7:01 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by Tigress

Sometimes expulsion is the only way for a person to learn that their sin is real, and that they can't just keep purposely committing it anymore.


What are you talking about? What sin has he committed? Admitting that he has homosexual desires? So he deserves expulsion? What about every other high school teenager in that school who has desires for premarital sex? Expel them all, I suppose. Wow. The more I deal with this subject, the more I can identify with why Semeia is so frustrated with the completely illogical and capricious way so many Christians treat the issue of homosexuality.

Sorry, Tigress. I don't mean to jump all over you, but I honestly find it absurd to defend what this school has done. It is embarrassing for me as a Christian to see other Christians behave this way. Okay, rant over.Flame2


Brett

"Siste viator et memento mori."

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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
 
   Posted 10/31/2003 10:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by BJS

quote:
Originally posted by Tigress

Sometimes expulsion is the only way for a person to learn that their sin is real, and that they can't just keep purposely committing it anymore.


What are you talking about? What sin has he committed? Admitting that he has homosexual desires? So he deserves expulsion? What about every other high school teenager in that school who has desires for premarital sex? Expel them all, I suppose. Wow. The more I deal with this subject, the more I can identify with why Semeia is so frustrated with the completely illogical and capricious way so many Christians treat the issue of homosexuality.

Sorry, Tigress. I don't mean to jump all over you, but I honestly find it absurd to defend what this school has done. It is embarrassing for me as a Christian to see other Christians behave this way. Okay, rant over.Flame2




BJS,
I didn't say to expel someone who has gay or lesbian thoughts and desires. (If you had read any of my previous posts on some of CVM's other homosexuality threads you'd know that I myself struggle with lesbian/bisexual thoughts and desires.) I did say that if a person actually continuously goes out and has gay or lesbian sex, or hetero sex, for that matter, the NT clearly says that if the person does not heed the rebukes of the Church and stop living in sin, then the last course of action for the Church is to expel the person in order to "save his soul" as Paul put it.

Also, I said the person must confess his/her sin. I do struggle with intentional sexual thoughts about sex with guys and women. But, I confess/admit that those thoughts are sins. I don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because I was born with these desires, makes it okay to just go ahead and fantasize about them or carry them out. So, even if a priest or anyone is celebate, he/she still needs to admit that the thoughts/desires themselves are sin. That's the only way God can help the person overcome it for what it is. Otherwise, the person will continue to be heaping suffering upon him/herself because of the distance the sin puts between him/her and God.

Finally, I'm referring to the Church expelling church members, not schools or other such institutions expelling people - unless it's a Christian school in which case they would be perfectly in line with the Biblical suggestion to expel as a last resort.


Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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