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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > (No Subject)
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 7/27/2001 5:58 PM (GMT -6) |   | When it comes to churches and their style of converting people, I have observed two very dangerous strategies.
My Aunt recently attended a church in northern Minnesota, in which she found they did not have communion. When she went to one of the leaders of the church and inquired as to why this was the case, they replied by saying "well, we certainly don't want to offend anyone". This church was so concerned with keep their attendance up that they sacrificed the practice of communion because of it's risk of "offending people". What a terrible shame.
Now, I have also heard tales of churches that use FEAR as their primary strategy of converting people. I'm sure everyone has either been to or heard about some sort of "fire and brimstone" church where the preacher shocks people by telling them how horrible a punishment they will recieve if they do not repent.
My question is, where do we draw the line between the first example given, and the second?
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
Edited by - Triskal on 07/27/2001 11:04:08 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 7/28/2001 4:57 AM (GMT -6) | | This is such an excellent question! Here's my take:
WE ar not to offend anyone. The Gospel is offensive enough to the nonchristian as it is. Simply present the Gospel as the Lord leads, and those who hear it will be offended at one level, at another they will struggle with whether they can move beyond the offense to faith.
If you are a nonchristian and the Lord has put you and I into a situation where it is appropriate for me to forcefully present the Gospel, and I tell you that Jesus died for you sins, you are forgiven, now repent and believe the Good News! By the way, Christ said, if you love me you will obey my commands.
That is enough to put anyone into enough tension with themselves and the Lord, that no more offensiveness is needed. Indeed, is justas likely that they will simply dismiss the whole event, for now. Furthermore, I have done my job. IT IS UP TO CHRIST to show up now and make his presence known and felt for that nonbeliever. I have to trust that Christ does that, because I am not the one to whom the nonchristian is to relate with regard to the Gospel, Christ is. Christ will show up and be present. AT THAT point the nonchristian is standing before her maker and will HAVE to "have an opinion" about it, to understate myself infinitely. To blow it off, is to be offended. To dismiss it, is to be offended. To become angry, is to be offended. We do not need to help them into their offense! We need only to help them into the place where they can encounter Christ. In that way, we are the feet who bring good news. What will make or break the offense will be simply this, that they understand themselves as a sinner, AND they come humbly before God and repent responding in faith to the fact that they have been forgiven.
There is enough trouble for a person to go through to get the point of standing humbly before God as sinner for the first time, we need not help them to be offended by our brashness/our stupidity/our arrogance/our insecurities, but at the same time, we must proclaim faithfully the Good News and create for the nonbeliever, a context in which they can come honestly before God, in humility as a sinner, so that they might be saved.
BTW: Direct application: The fact that a church would abstain from communion is an offense to God, not to people. People expect churches to have communion. There is little offense here. Though communion is a powerful time where God is present among us in Christ in a unique way, there is the possibility of offense WHENEVER Christ is present. Especially when Christ is present so concretely as is the case in communion. BUT SURELY this does not mean that we disinvite the Lord to worships services!!! ...so as not to offend the unbelievers? THIS is precisely the sort of offense that offers the possibility of faith. Most offense that comes from Evangelical Christians has to do with their own socio-political BS. THAT is offense I can live without, Christ is WELL above such things.
BTW2: Of course, communion, beyond my defense above, is a command of the Lord, not a option.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 7/28/2001 6:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Modes,
so what you are saying is that we should keep from offending unbelievers in ways that are outside the Bible, but we should not go out of our way to make THE BIBLE less offensive?
What about other things that might offend people, such as: style of music, style of preaching, etc?
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 7/28/2001 7:21 AM (GMT -6) | | Preaching and music styles are not worthy of offense in and of themselves. People who think that they are "offended" at such things mistake their own comfort zones for "grounds to be offended". God's Word must be proclaimed in every way to all people. As Paul became all things to all people so that some might be saved, we must do likewise. I care very little for someone's "preference" about how the "look and feel" of the presentation ought to be. Let the Word be heard. IMHO.
Modes
Ask someone who has such an opinion, do they think that people around the world should be forced to aclimate to their preferences for "how to" preach and worship? Can they stand in judgment of the diversity evident in the Larger Body of Christ?
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 7/30/2001 2:23 PM (GMT -6) | | Modes is right on. We must not mistake "offense" for "preference." People prefer different music styles and preaching styles. But only people who have come to equate their preference with GOD's preference would be offended by a different style.
And in this case, the offense would do them well to get over!
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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