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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 7/9/2001 4:21 PM (GMT -6) |   | I'm wondering if folks would like to discuss this conviction I've had for a number of years. Here's my line of thinking about race relations and the Church.
* Godcreated humans ONE race. We all descend from ONE set of parents. The remarkable genetic diversity we see among humans today was all there at the start.
* God judged the world in Gen.10 by spreading people out according to languages, for they were using their unity against him rather than for him. This was the "lesser of two evils." It was not God's ideal.
* On the day of Pentecost God gives the "sign" that Babel is being reversed by supernaturally having everyone hear the disciples "according to their own tongue" (Acts 2). He is showing us that when the Holy Spirit comes, the walls of Babel begin to fall down. (As do all other walls -- e.g. gender, class -- as Peter makes clear in his sermon [2:16ff]).
* We learn from Paul that one of the reasons Jesus died was to "make one new humanity" by being to new Adam (Eph 2). God's goal is for the Church to recapture the original unity amdist diversity of humanity. In Christ there is no longer Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Bond or Free (Gal. 3:27).
From this (and other) considerations, I conclude that it is a mandate of the Church to work toward the re-unification of humanity. This is as much a reason why Christ died as is our forgiveness of sins or healing. When Churches do not strive to reconcile the people-groups, they are, to this extent, forsaking the call of God. While Churches will of course reflect the demography of their region, they should strive to reflect the racial diversity of the demography of their region.
What is more, if the goal is to reverse Babel, then interracial marriages should not only be allowed: they should (all other things being equal) be encouraged. Not that same-race marriages are wrong, by any means, but interracial marriages are yet another way by which the gulf between races, created out of necessity at Babel, can be reversed in the Church.
What do you all think?
Doc
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trosie
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| Posted 7/9/2001 6:07 PM (GMT -6) | | Doc said: "interracial marriages should not only be allowed: they should (all other things being equal) be encouraged."
I believe in interracial marriages too, but I DON'T think we need to be encouraging people to date and marry people of different ethnicities in order to break down barriers...
I appreciate this interracial topic. I remember, before I was married, I used to say that I would marry a man who was of a different race if I fell in love with him, and many of my friends and some of my family would show objection to my statement. I always was amazed by some of the objections that I received. What I am REALLY surprised with today is how this topic is still objectionable to some people. I keep thinking that I must be color-blind because I don't honestly see a difference between people based on race...
My opinion is that we should marry due to love and not care about the race issue at all.
trosie
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JesusFreak
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| Posted 7/9/2001 10:44 PM (GMT -6) | | What do you mean by this
quote:
* Godcreated humans ONE race. We all descend from ONE set of parents. The remarkable genetic diversity we see among humans today was all there at the start.
I’ve always thought that the potential for genetic diversity was there from the start but that this potential was not maximized until Babel split up a unified gene pool into isolated groups in which, over many generations, genetic idiosyncrasy could be perpetuated and exaggerated until we arrive at the diversity we see today.
Have you ever read The Open Secret: An Introduction to the Theology of Mission by Lesslie Newbigin? I find myself in agreement with Newbigin about Babel. He sees it as a blessing not a curse to be reversed. Babel allowed for the diversification of humanity, a diversification that far from being reversed should be celebrated because it reflects more of God. Newbigin also shows that when God said he created human kind in his own image this was not primarily an individual affair. Rather human kind as a whole was made in God’s image and the more diverse humankind becomes the more of God’s image is preserved. So I agree whole heartedly that we should seek unity amdist diversity, but I don’t see how this is a reversal of Babel. Are you suggesting we establish one universal language? That seems a bit totalitarian to me. Are you suggesting that we merge all cultural and ethnic diversity into some universal pre-Babel uniformity? That seems ethnocentric. I think your confusing unity with sameness. Were sameness exists unity is unneeded. Unity is something that only can exist admist diversity, that is to say diversity makes unity possible. A reduction of differences will not glorify God. We should not be seeking to force common ground onto two things that are by nature alien to one another. Rather, we should seek a common reference point in Christ that the otherness within the body of Christ can be positioned around.
Far from reversing Babel we should thank God for blessing us with Babel (a judgement that took the form of a blessing) and seek to preserve the uniqueness of Christ in the uniqueness of each ethnicity. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t encourage interracial marriages. Far from it. I agree completely that we should encourage interracial marriages and interracial relationships of every nature. The point is that if it weren’t for Babel we wouldn’t have any cultural, racial, traditional, or ethnic diversity that makes such relationships possible. I believe, from experience that the more distance there is between perspectives the more potential for a rewarding relationship exists.
Mike.
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yankee551
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Total Posts : 22
| Posted 7/9/2001 10:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Dear Greg and Trosie,
I would like to express my thoughts on interracial marriages. I am caucasian and I am deeply in love with my beautiful brown skinned Filapina wife. I have been married to this kind hearted and gentle person for seven wonderful years now. If I committed a sin by marrying her then it was the best sin I ever committed for I have been enjoying her companionship ever since. Regarding children I will say that I have never known of any white/Filapino children to have any difficulties being accepted by kids at school. Nobody stares at me and my wife when we are out in public. Nobody seems to think anything about seeing a white man with an asian woman. I wonder though if black/white children have it as easy as white/asian children do. I suspect that they do not. I wonder how often black/white couples get stared at when out in public. I suspect they get it a lot. I wonder how often black/white couples run into problems getting the full acceptance of their mates family for themselves and their biracial children. I would strongly advise black/white couples to consider these things before marrying and having children. They should ask themselves if this is something that would create hardships for their future children. I know that there are some who will take a verse of scripture that speaks of God determining "the bounds of their habitation" as confirming their opposition to interracial marriage. I do not read any interracial marriage ban in this scripture. I know that Moses married a cushite (Ethiopian if I'm not mistaken)woman. I am not aware of anywhere where God condemns him for this but of course it is possible that even though I never seen it in the scriptures it might still be there waiting to be found.
I will say that if someone believes that they have a Biblical basis for being opposed to interracial marriages then by all means they should not marry outside their race. I would also like to say that even if someone is opposed to interracial marriages we should never assume their stance makes them a racist. They may have compassionate reasons for believing as they do. I have heard that we should avoid interracial marriages due to problems that may occur due to cultural differences. My wife may have came from a different culture but her cultural and moral values are higher than the vast majority of those of or near my own age who grew up here in the states. Though she grew up an occasional drinker of wine she is not the least bit offended by my T-Total abstinance stance on alcohol. Their is no alcohol in my home and that is just fine with her. There are no cigarettes in my home and that makes things even better. I have never heard her speak profanities. She prays with our children. We attend church together as it should be. I am married to what I would call the "traditional old fashioned Filapina girl". I am proud to be American. I love my country. Unfortunately even here in America the cultural and moral values of our society are subject to changes for the worse. I once told someone that here in South Carolina it would'nt be difficult for me to find a woman to marry who cherishes the values I cherish if I did'nt mind marrying someone old enough to be my mother. The girls here my age are the cussingest, drinkingest, and smokingest girls to be found probably anywhere. At work they will even speak of things in the presence of men that women of fifty years ago would'nt have spoken of in private. It is hard here to find a good woman. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. It disturbs me when I see and hear of the Filapino's culture becoming more and more westernized. I hope that there will still be some traditional old fashioned Filapina girls around when my sons are old enough to marry. I would love it immensely if they could find for themselves wives who would treat them like my wife treats me.
Sincerly,
Yankee
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trosie
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Total Posts : 550
| Posted 7/11/2001 4:48 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey you guys, I saw a great movie that deals with this interracial topic! The movie is called Save The Last Dance It's a great movie if you don't mind a little swearing, the dancing is questionable at times,... BUT still a great movie that deals with this very issue of interracial relationships. Personally, I recommend it to those who haven't yet seen it.
trosie
Edited by - trosie on 07/11/2001 09:48:47 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Glamdring
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Total Posts : 35
| Posted 7/12/2001 6:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Mike, Doc said,
quote:
God's goal is for the Church to recapture the original UNITY AMIDST DIVERSITY of humanity. In Christ there is no longer Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Bond or Free (Gal. 3:27).
You say he is talking about 'sameness'. I didn't get that idea. English is already becoming the universal language, without any totalitarian stuff going on. And besides we couldn't rely on a dicatatorship to literally make men and woman into the same sex so I don't think this tracks, if you get my drift. (and my mind does tend to drifting at this time of night)
Mike says:
quote:
The point is that if it weren’t for Babel we wouldn’t have any cultural, racial, traditional, or ethnic diversity that makes such relationships possible.
I'm not sure this is true. We may not have had different races or languages, but we most definitely would have various cultures and much diversity.
I definitely disagree with this statement you made:
quote:
We should not be seeking to force common ground onto two things that are by nature alien to one another
I have a heart for reconcilliation, but I certainly have no compulsion to accomplish it by force, not do I believe that the color of someones skin make them 'by nature alien to me'.
I think the Doc is right on. Let's tear down the walls!
g
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GregBoyd
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| Posted 7/15/2001 12:14 PM (GMT -6) | | A world in which humanity was ONE would embody the diversity, without the division, of this world. Someday it shall be globally. But it must begin ecclesiastically.
Must - as in, we must preach forgiveness of sin, healing from disease, and everything else Jesus died for (Eph 2:14ff).
Doc
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 7/20/2001 6:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Just some quick thoughts:
quote:
if someone believes that they have a Biblical basis for being opposed to interracial marriages
There isn't any basis in the Bible for opposing interracial marriages. The descendents of Canaan were the Canaanites, not the Africans, as far as one verse used is concerned, and there aren't any Canaanites today. And the prescription for the Isralites not to marry outside of Israel did not preclude different races, but rather different religions (Boaz and Ruth is a good example of an interracial marriage that was obviously set as an example).
All this being said, it seems that people should be encouraged to consider interracial marriages, but also they should be careful to be at a level of maturity where they can handle the inevitable pressures that such marriages will place on them. I know of one person who rushed more or less headlong into an interracial marriage, his parents did not accept his wife, and it made his marriage very shaky.
So extra grace and wisdom is required, encouragement should be there, but also with some checking to be sure that the couple is at a place in the lives where the challenges that would arise will be met.
God bless you,
Lee
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"What we love, we shall grow to resemble" (Bernard of Clairveaux)
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Edited by - Lee Merrill on 07/20/2001 11:40:08 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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mennonite
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Total Posts : 1
| Posted 7/30/2001 5:17 PM (GMT -6) | | | Greg Boyd's outline for the restoration of races makes sense and is faithful to Scripture. I struggle with the reality that there are so few people of other races in my own small congregation; my former congregation was somewhat more diverse. I wonder what we might do to attract more diversity? It is refreshing to read not only of Scriptural and theological themes that keep us occupied in our minds, but also to have this perspective on race, which, when practiced, is a way to demonstrate the effect the Gospel has on us in our relations with those different than us[/url[/url | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
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Total Posts : 817
| Posted 7/30/2001 7:25 PM (GMT -6) | | Welcome Mennonite! Glad to have you here. BTW, you are not the only mennonite on the board, but I doubt you'll sniff the other one(s?) very easily. I agree with your thoughts and pray that God will reveal clearly to you what contribution you may have in encouraging peace between races and restoring right community in diverse places.
Blessings on you as seek God in this!
Modes.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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geej
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Total Posts : 93
| Posted 8/1/2001 5:58 PM (GMT -6) | | Interracial relationships is something I can speak to. My program assistant happens to be African American; his girlfriend is white. They told me of several occasions when they'd be in Minneapolis and people, African American women, in particular, would stop them and start screaming at them. Others will sometimes stare at them and give them dirty looks; his daughter has even been teased at school. He and I (I'm white) chaperoned a field trip to the Mall of America and we were glared at and stared at the whole day. He and his family have experienced this in churches of both races.
It is great that there are people out there who are willing to risk ridicule to be together; perhaps we can all learn something from those brave enough to risk entering into an interracial relationship. Racially, culturally and economically diverse churches, whose focus is centered on Christ and His sacrifice for us are an unfortunate rarity. Let's hope that prayer and ministries that pave the way will make this type of diversity the rule rather than the exception.
The lack of racial acceptance experienced by my friends has driven them from church and from God. Personally, I wouldn't attend a church that didn't promote diversity; I just don't think its God's will for anything other than that to occur.
GJ
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aranjuez
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Total Posts : 18
| Posted 8/2/2001 12:38 PM (GMT -6) | | I agree with mennonite that churches do not reflect diversity, neither racial nor cultural or social. I beleive God wants us to celebrate diversity, not to be color-blind. When we acknowledge our differences we are praising God for being a wonderful creator. I would like to see more hispanics, asian, african-american, ... worshiping and working together for God's Kingdom. Praising God in different languages and singing songs in diffrent styles... Stepping out of our comfort-zone...
"May the nations be glad,...May the peoples praise you.." Psalm 67: 3-4
Aranjuez
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Triskal
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Total Posts : 198
| Posted 8/2/2001 5:59 PM (GMT -6) | | Geej,
I also know two people who are interracially married. They recieve the same type of ridicule that you speak of. I think it's a shame that the majority of people like to seclude themselves into their own race and are not willing to step out of their comfort zone and relate to people of different color.
I have observed that this same type of secluding attitude is so popular among just about any type of group. We see it not only with interracial relationships, but also in the church, home, school and community. People are not willing to leave their "comfort zone". They get into this attitude of security and become prejudice towards change.
This is the type of attitude that the pharisees embraced. They became "secure" in this world, and were not comfortable when Jesus came and challenged their beliefs and opinions. This world needs to wake up to the fact that you cannot find NEW life, unless you first leave behind THIS life. In other words, you need to leave your "comfort zone" if you want to find true happiness. Change, if for the better, is NOT a bad thing.
In His Grip,
Matt
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geej
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Total Posts : 93
| Posted 8/3/2001 11:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Matt
Very well put. I couldn't agree more. Change is difficult to accept but isn't that what our Christian walk is all about? Being transformed into the likeness of Christ? Anyway, I guess the best way to combat the Pharisees is to pray for them!
GJ
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graygirl
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Total Posts : 78
| Posted 8/25/2001 4:11 PM (GMT -6) | | As a black woman who has struggled with the call to reconcile and grip of anger from life experiences, I must say that the idea of marrying interracially is a bridge I have been unable to cross. Brothers and sisters it is so incredibly difficult to live in the country where race is an issue that is continually dumped on your plate- in the world, in the church. Even at the age of 22 I have had my fill of "experiences". I am tired of "educating", "explaining", "representing my race"...To have a marriage that would be under constant scrutiny and attack from the world and the enemy would be more than I could bear. To look across at my husband who will never understand, who could never truly know....wow.
God bless those who have married across racial lines. They need an extra dose of protective prayer from loved ones. It is no easy feat.
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GregBoyd
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| Posted 8/25/2001 7:56 PM (GMT -6) | | Welcome to the discussion room graygirl. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I respect your honesty.
We had an interracial couple move next door last week. My wife and I went over and welcomed them to the neighborhood. You could SEE the sense of relief on their face that at least one of their neighbors accepted them. Yes, making the decision to engage in an interracial marriage has its unique challenges. And, as you note, a further challenge is sharing your unique experience of what it is to be a person of color with a person who is not.
But then again, graygirl, doesn't every marriage, in one way or another, involve similar challenges? Whenever a person marries someone with a different mindset and perhaps radically different life experience, there is the constant challenge of bringing each other into the others world. Can a person who (say) was raised in a healthy family home ever really understand a person who was raised in an abusive environement? In one sense the answer is no, for they haven't themselves experienced what the abused person went through. But in another sense I think the answer is yes, for we have the capacity, when we are out of love willing to work at it, to empathize, to be brought into the world of the other.
I know a number of interracial couples, a few of them intimately, and they show me that it can be done, sometimes in a very beautiful fashion. But as with all differences, it takes love. And in this culture, it also takes courage.
And when all is said and done, a person has to follow their heart. Each person is by genes and by environment wired such that the range of people they could be happily married to is limited. Knowing yourself, and loving yourself, is the prerequisite to any happy marriage.
Blessings
Greg
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Cibertus
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Total Posts : 57
| Posted 8/25/2001 8:31 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
As a black woman who has struggled with the call to reconcile and grip of anger from life experiences, I must say that the idea of marrying interracially is a bridge I have been unable to cross. Brothers and sisters it is so incredibly difficult to live in the country where race is an issue that is continually dumped on your plate- in the world, in the church. Even at the age of 22 I have had my fill of "experiences". I am tired of "educating", "explaining", "representing my race"...To have a marriage that would be under constant scrutiny and attack from the world and the enemy would be more than I could bear. To look across at my husband who will never understand, who could never truly know....wow.
God bless those who have married across racial lines. They need an extra dose of protective prayer from loved ones. It is no easy feat.
With all due repect, graygirl, there is one thing that I do not concur with here. You say that if you would look at your husband and he was white, he would never be able to understand. I disagree with that pretty strongly. There are was for a white male to place himself in a situation where he is discriminated against. (now, granted most white males are big babies and would never survive but that's another story) BUT if he would choose to put himself in such a situation, he WOULD know what it is like to be discriminated against. The person I know who has taken this to the nth degree is John Howard Griffin who wrote, "Black Like Me." John became a black man for a while when discrimination had a strong presence in the south.
Plus, there are other surface things a person can alter about themselves and get discriminated against. Believe me I've tried a number of things. Black/white is not the only type of discrimination out there.
Would you be able to marry someone like Griffin and tell him he doesn't understand? Granted you typically don't find that type of person...
But ocasionally there are people who live out their convictions passionately. Simon Weil is another example of a person who I would say "walked a mile in another's shoes" out of love for another person/people group. She did so out of deep care for and a willingness...no...drive! to suffer the same suffering those she cared for suffered.
What if a white man loved you so much that he would do that for you?
Cibertus
Edited by - cibertus on 08/26/2001 01:41:23 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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trosie
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Total Posts : 550
| Posted 8/25/2001 9:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Cibertus:"What if a white man loved you so much that he would do that for you?
I agree with that. I don't believe the race matters as much when LOVE is involved.
trosie
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graygirl
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Total Posts : 78
| Posted 8/26/2001 5:12 AM (GMT -6) | | hi all
okay. i hear all of you. Yes, where LOVE is invloved..supernatural God-inspired lOVE anything is possible. I am learning that. God and his LOVE was what moved me out of a racist mindset to a place where I could begin to love all my brothers. In college I was part of the black student group, angry, miltant but it was my love for God that changed me, his love not only for me- but for his other children that brought me to where I am. So yes, again yes LOVE can conquer all....but the stakes are still too high for me.
Not only am I black, I'm Ethiopian...language, culture, etc..my parents, my relatives..Good gracious talk about a constant project...the two of us trying to navigate those waters...and what about my children?? who will they be? and if they marry white then what?
I'm not saying it is impossible. I too have seen beautiful couples but they were sure of their call to marry interracially. I'm not sure I would encourage it...i wouldn't discourage....It is intense...like regular marriage i'm sure.
I still don't think my white husband would ever understand. This dude that became black (i don't get that but okay and no i would not marry him he sounds like he has several problems- who does that?!) is singular and rare. most white people have no clue because they don't have to deal with any of it. The only way perhaps would be (of course through a interracial marriage) when their mixed kids came home asking "why is this happening to me?".....
There may be a white man that could have that kind of LOVE for me and i for him. With GOd anything is possible...but if you all knew me you would know that it would have to be AN ACT OF GOD to get me to cross that bridge...
I appreciate the idealism in all of you...but it's not that simple. I may not have a strong arguement (except life experience) against it because i'm not against it but i just don't see it. but we serve the God of the possible.....
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pia†desideria
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| Posted 8/26/2001 10:35 AM (GMT -6) | | graygirl, glad to have you on board. Yeah, we tend to be an idealistic bunch of people, but we also are very big on keepin’ it real. Maybe you can help us do that. Pleased to meet you, pia
“An exploration of reality is no place to lose touch with reality.” — Magneton | | Back to Top | | |
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Cibertus
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Total Posts : 57
| Posted 8/26/2001 11:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Graygirl,
I first of all want to acknowledge and validate what you have said. The road is very difficult for cross-racial and cross-cultural marriages and at one time I would have refused to go there myself. But then God shook my life apart.
Graygirl says:
quote:
I still don't think my white husband would ever understand. This dude that became black (i don't get that but okay and no i would not marry him he sounds like he has several problems- who does that?!) is singular and rare. most white people have no clue because they don't have to deal with any of it.
Graygirl: Who does that?!
Me: Jesus.
Jesus may have had a few screws loose Yes. A few problems. A little CRAZY! He’s been accused of worse. And not many people got him. It was a wild and crazy thing to do but that’s how crazy god is for us and that’s how crazy he calls us to be for each other. Yes I think that would win the cosmic crazines prize. When BIG GOD of the universe/Creator of everything decided to put on a human suit subjecting himself to the manure of a Bethlehem stable. Who traded his heavenly clothing for the rags Mary wrapped him in. Who could have stayed in heavenly communicating with the rest of the trinity but instead went around Galilee grunting in humanoid language with idiots like Peter.
Look! My main issue with what you say is this…
I am white and I have been discriminated against. Grade school was horrible. I was spit upon teased and otherwise harassed. And yes there is an imbedded fear of the majority culture that my parents and grandparents and their parents have passed down to me and it is only by the grace of God that I have overcome a good portion of that. Unlike the black and white thing, people have yet to acknowledge that my people group is discriminated against and has suffered atrocities in the past that still effect every aspect of our daily lives today. This is why I object (and I resent it) when you suggest a white man could not understand what you go through. I would say it is discriminatory to say that.
Thanks for the discussion.
Cibertus | | Back to Top | | |
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geej
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Total Posts : 93
| Posted 8/26/2001 11:44 AM (GMT -6) | | As a history person (I will have a history masters as soon as I get it in the mail), I must say that all groups have been descriminated against at one time or another. In American history, each new group that came along was descriminated against (the Irish, poor English, Italian, Greek, Hispanic, African Americans...everyone). Slavery existed everywhere during the period when it existed here and during the early settlement period, the poor English were endentured servants (slaves). Surfdom was also a form of slavery and oppression. It seems to me that we all need to be sensitive to the fact that all people and cultures have scars..some worse than others.. No one can completely understand the history of the others. Based on my Scandinavian appearance, no one would guess that I am part Cherokee and my great, great grandmother walked in the trail of tears.
Frankly, I wish we could move past people's history and their skin tones, admit that we're all in the same boat (our history stinks) and move on in a united fashion.
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Springs
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Total Posts : 636
| Posted 8/26/2001 1:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Great thread Doc!
Graygirl wrote:
quote:
but if you all knew me you would know that it would have to be AN ACT OF GOD to get me to cross that bridge...
As people groups with different cultures we are finding it is taking an Act of God to get any of us to cross any of the bridges.
He is calling us to be bridges.
Springs
"Rat,' he found breath to whisper, shaking, 'Are you afraid?' 'Afraid?' murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love. 'Afraid? of Him? O, never, never. And yet - and yet - O Mole, I am afraid." (The wind in the Willows.) | | Back to Top | | |
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graygirl
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Total Posts : 78
| Posted 8/26/2001 2:00 PM (GMT -6) | | Cibertus: okay, brother okay. i won't even go into what I resent. But I hear you- i do.
Hi pia! thanks....you're generous:)
geej- good point! as we speak Ethiopians are killing fellow Ethiopians. It a problem of the human condition. It's a problem of sin. I am not immune- this is in real terms what sin does.....divides, confuses....
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Mephi2K
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Total Posts : 713
| Posted 8/26/2001 4:54 PM (GMT -6) | | Meph's Personal Take:
Bottom line. White people will never fully understand the plight of black people...any more than black people will fully understand the plight of white people...any more than black or white people will fully understand the plight of Asian people. The point? We all have our friggin plights. Some may, arguably, be more weighty than others...but NOT on a subjective level. I don't know what it's like to be called a "kike" or a "spic", but I damn sure know what it's like to be called a "uppity nigger" and often being looked at funny because I can speak like I have half a brain. (Deep South 2001, y'all--some things ain't changed) Does this mean that I devalue the plights of others, like the Jews, Native Americans, Indians, or anyone else who has been discriminated against and victimized by hatred? Heck, no. But we need to quit with all this "I feel your pain" mess. Fact of the matter is that you will NEVER feel my pain totally, just like I won't feel the depths of yours. So let's all stop the condescending, mealy-mouthed attempts at trying. (This is aimed at no one in particular) And, while we're at it, we can also stop all the misguided comparisons of human suffering too. ("African slavery was MUCH worse than anti-Semitism that pervaded the Holocaust" and stuff like that) Most of the time it's NOT about getting historical facts straight more than about trying to ascertain who has the right to fuss the loudest. It gets counterproductive. What I feel we CAN do is have honest, respectful dialogue with one another and try for EMPATHETIC understanding. We can acknowledge each others rights to feel what we feel, acknowledge the FACTS of the past, always keeping loving unity the focus...and THEN moving on to better things.
Geej is right. Everyone's had their share of crud thrown on them. Humanity, as evidenced by human history, basically SUCKS. (Is my misanthopy showing?) And to a certain extent, one DOES want to say "Look, stop yer whinin' and move on. We've all been abused and abusers at one time. We've ALL been kicked in the butt more than once, so let's admit that and move on." But please understand that to say some stuff like that is like telling the feminist to stop HER whining and admit that men have their problems too. That she should just forget about the misogyny that went on in the past and move into the future. Some people just need to be allowed to FEEL their pain and NOT have it minimized for the sake of some simplistic emotional attempts at unity. ("Can't we all just get along?") Am I saying that people should be bitter, unforgiving, and count themselves victims for the rest of their lives? HECK, NO. I detest that type of behavior in anyone, especially my own people group. However, let's not be overidealistic simpletons about the situation either. Lots of healing and rethinking needs to be done on ALL sides. And holding hands singing "Amazing Grace" just ain't gonna cut it. (I know that I'm not saying anything that people here don't already know.) Let's just keep faith in God and keep pressing towards the goal of a "new humanity" in Christ.
Oh, and about interracial marriages. True love rules. Forget the rest of the world. It's like my mama always told me, if you can stand the social pressure, do it. Be courageous and stand your ground. But make sure you can take it. Prayfully, more Christians will start living like Christ enough to truly not care about it, one way or the other.
That's my word. Like it or lump it.
PS: If I've offended someone, I truly am sorry. Don't take it personal. But I felt like just spittin' uncut today. Raw. This is me in my splendor and shame. Was this real enough for you, Pia? 
PSS: Sup, Graygirl. Welcome and have fun.
PSSS: I hear there's some interesting thought on providence and open view theism being discussed somewhere. Holla at it.
Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love.
Edited by - Mephi2K on 08/26/2001 9:56:36 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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