Open Theism Discussion Board

Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > (No Subject)

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

pia†desideria
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301

Posted 11/30/2001 10:18 AM (GMT -6)

Imagine you are walking down a street that connects two borroughs, so there’s not a whole lot going on and the street lights are few and far between. Now image a strange black man pulls up next to you in his car. He is dressed very “stylishly” and he has feminine mannerisms. In a high voice, he asks you to have a seat next to him in the car. What would you do?

In Acts 8:26ff. the Spirit told Philip to travel down a wilderness road that connected Jerusalem and Gaza. While he was traveling he came across an Ethiopian (black) eunuch (castrated). The Spirit told him to “Go over to this chariot and join it.” The eunuch invited Philip to have a seat next to him. Next thing you know, “both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.”

How open are we to the Spirit? What if the Spirit wanted to send someone to a transgendered black man whose heart was ready to receive the gospel? Could the Spirit send an Evangelical Christian?

But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!’ (Rom. 10:14–15)

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
The glory of God is the human being fully alive § Irenaeus

pia†desideria
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301

Posted 12/6/2001 12:00 PM (GMT -6)

The domestication of God’s righteousness

Jesus warns his disciples: “Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees…” (Luke 12:1; cf. Matt. 16:6, Mark 8:15). The Pharisees put their piety on display (cf. Matt. 6), whether in the form of self-justification as “good” or self-abasement as “wicked.” Paul confronted the Corinthians for boasting in their sin, saying: “Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?” (1 Cor. 5:6ff).

Jesus calls us to resist the sinful yeast of self-righteousness (i.e. knowledge that merely puffs up), but Jesus also talks about another kind of yeast that we are called to receive (i.e. love that really builds up): “To what should I compare the kingdom of God? It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed in with three measures of flour until all of it was leavened” (Luke 13:20; cf. Matt. 13:33).

How much of a hint of heaven does it take to permeate our here and now? A young boy knew that it only took a few barley loaves and fishes (John 6:9), a Canaanite woman knew it only took a crumb (Matt. 15:27), a centurion knew it only took a word (Matt. 8:8). God leavens us with love, working it through our whole being, and in this hope we wait for a world “where righteousness is at home” (2 Peter 3:13).

Thus says the Lord of hosts, to all the exiles…“Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat what they produce…have sons and daughters…multiply there, and do not decrease. But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.…For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope.” (Jeremiah 29:4–9)

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
I think we are in “violent agreement” most of the time. § Iconoclast

Edited by - pia†desideria on 12/06/2001 6:02:36 PM

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 12/6/2001 1:44 PM (GMT -6)

I'm challenged.

Tom

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 12/6/2001 3:41 PM (GMT -6)

Hang on a sec here...

First, this question about the black man asking US to come sit next to him in his car is NOT the same as the SPIRIT telling us to go sit next to him. In the example of the Ethiopian, the man was totally unaware of Phillip until Phillip got his attention. The question you pose, Pia, isn't the same situation.

But still...

Second, doesn't make a difference to me if the person were black, white, pink (okay, maybe just the hair) or otherwise; I wouldn't go sit with the person. I mean, obviously, in the question you pose, the person is on the make (I wouldn't do it if it were female either!). Why invite trouble and possibly even risk your own life.

For the conversation,

Starkman

ScottEmerson
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 17

Posted 12/7/2001 5:10 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

Hang on a sec here...

First, this question about the black man asking US to come sit next to him in his car is NOT the same as the SPIRIT telling us to go sit next to him. In the example of the Ethiopian, the man was totally unaware of Phillip until Phillip got his attention. The question you pose, Pia, isn't the same situation.

But still...

Second, doesn't make a difference to me if the person were black, white, pink (okay, maybe just the hair) or otherwise; I wouldn't go sit with the person. I mean, obviously, in the question you pose, the person is on the make (I wouldn't do it if it were female either!). Why invite trouble and possibly even risk your own life.

And my answer would be that if we had an open heart and mind to the Spirit, we'd undoubtedly know our purpose. Maybe it would be to keep driving - but just maybe, God would be whispering for us to show the guy the message of the Cross!

I tell my kids in Sunday School practically weekly that if they are in a strong relationship with God, their decisions involving the "gray" areas will be made much easier to make, including when untraditional people stop us on the street! For example, I never give money to the bell-dingers with the Salvation Army, for whatever reason. (I'd rather entrust my money to the Church and let them help society.) However, two days ago, on the way to Target, I just had a feeling that God wanted me to place a couple dollars in the little red kettle. The ringer said thank you and I told him, "Good luck out here, and have a blessed Christmas season." He smiled. I don't know what that purpose was, but I trust that God has a plan for that money and that conversation (and he had a plan if I chose not to do it, staying within the open view, of course!) That's the way I choose to view decisions!

SEC

Nobody teaches a plant to grow. If I water and care for her, she grows on her own. - F. Perls

pia†desideria
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301

Posted 12/12/2001 4:53 PM (GMT -6)

When breast cancer spreads, the lining of the lungs and the sack around the heart fill with fluid. I know a woman who went to the emergency room because she had trouble breathing. The doctors made an incision in her side to drain the fluid in her lungs, but they weren’t prepared for the amount of blood that came gushing out, spilling onto the floor. The blood had not been circulating so it was dead and full of cancer.

Dante believed the greatest sin was treachery. Treachery closed eyes to Jesus’ suffering in the garden, betrayed him with a kiss, denied him with a curse, and abandoned him on the cross. But it didn’t stop there. I think that treachery is a big enough category to capture moral and natural evil—What kind of a world is this, where our bodies can be betrayed by our own blood? The same blood that circulates life can collect in our lungs and drown us. Because of the treachery of his friends and his own body, Jesus did not stop bleeding from the time in the garden to the time when the soldiers pierced his side.

Treachery is like cancer in our blood that we can’t do anything about. It feels like doom. But because Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, defeating treachery on the cross, this sickness need not be unto death. The empty tomb signifies that life has broken loose. In Christ it flows endlessly and abundantly.

"Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Rom. 7:24–25).

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him.” § John 11:21–22

Edited by - pia†desideria on 12/12/2001 11:29:35 PM

TCTBU
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 42

Posted 12/14/2001 3:38 PM (GMT -6)

One question in light of the "process" of "following the Spirit". It has always been unclear to me what exactly it is. It's another one of those "Christian catch phrases". By saying "follow the spirit" one can sound religious and at the same time have no meaning behind their words whatsoever. So I'm asking, how does one define "following the spirit"? Is it only an existential activity or what? Is it a minute by minute thing? It is unclear to me.

I believe I will pose another question. Getting more specific, mostly in reply to Starkman's comment about risking one's life, the question is: If we follow the Spirit, does that mean we should believe that our life is no longer in danger? Just b/c we follow the Spirit does that mean we're "safe". It's another one of those "moral questions", but how far are we expected to go? Where's the line between following the Spirit and putting your life in danger? Is there such a divider? Or perhaps the better question would be, where's the line between following the spirit and being a fool? My thoughts are that there has to be some room to move in light of every situation. To tell the truth, I somewhat agree w/ Starkman, but I don't know if my agreeing is well founded. But common sense tells me 1. to follow my instincts 2. That as a woman I cannot "follow the spirit" (forgive me if I'm stepping on toes) in the same way in such a situation that I could if I were a man. In many situations there are just more dangers if you are a woman, instead of a man.

"It is better to debate a question w/out settling it, than to settle a question w/out debating it." - Jeseph Joubert

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 12/15/2001 9:47 AM (GMT -6)

Hey all,

Just to clarify something here about my previous post above...

The example first given was not with reference to anything about being lead by the Spirit. Therefore, I wouldn't take the bait to get into the car. Why?

HOWEVER, if the same incident happened and I strongly felt the Spirit say, "Just go along with it. I'm with you and I want to do something here", then yes, I'd get into the car. BUT I'd want to be darned sure it was of God. Otherwise, if there was no leading of God, I wouldn't go. I would think it would just be plain stupid otherwise, unless you were ready to give up your life without having been lead to do so. Who knows, a fellow Christian might say, "I'm going God, so go with me and whatever happens happens. My point, though, was that the original example given by Pia didn't have the Spirit leading you in the first place, that's all. She might have meant for that to be the case and just didn't state it more clearly (though I see how she could have meant that from the usage of the Ethiopian and Philip, but it wasn't clear to me).

Okay, I be done now!

Starkman

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 12/16/2001 3:42 PM (GMT -6)

Starkman,
You're on it dude. good job.

TCTBU wrote:
“So I'm asking, how does one define "following the spirit"? Is it only an existential activity or what?”

***Springs: Yeah, it’s a communication, revelation, experience.

TC: “ Is it a minute by minute thing?”

***Sometimes. Like when you are in the process of an actual experience of following the spirit. For instance in ministry or is saying or doing what he asks at odd moments. Other times it’s a no moment thing, cause God can’t get our attention.

TC: “I believe I will pose another question. Getting more specific, mostly in reply to Starkman's comment about risking one's life, the question is: If we follow the Spirit, does that mean we should believe that our life is no longer in danger?” Just b/c we follow the Spirit does that mean we're "safe". It's another one of those "moral questions", but how far are we expected to go? Where's the line between following the Spirit and putting your life in danger? Is there such a divider?”

***I’m thinking this might be rhetorical for you TC but here goes anyway. Following the Spirit is no guarantee of safety. In fact it seems that following the Spirit will bring us trouble in this world. Having said that I don’t think God disregards our safety. But some ventures are worth some risk.

TC: “Or perhaps the better question would be, where's the line between following the spirit and being a fool?”

***I don’t think there is much of a line here either, depending on the case. We are fools for Christ. Maybe you are asking how can we be sure we are following the Spirit or just being foolish. If God moves you to do something you will see the fruit for confirmation. The best
way to flow with the Spirit is to abide in Christ and be ready for the wind.

God said that the sheep will know his voice. I have faith in that. In circumstances like the example given by Pia where God is asking me to step out in faith I don’t feel compelled, like God overwhelms me with a desire to do his will. It’s more like the thought comes to mind as a suggestion. If I dismiss the thought and it’s from God, he suggests it again. If I dismiss it again, he has been known to nag. Just kidding. Let’s just say he is persistent.

I talked to a prophet who said that when they get a word or a picture they can have no peace until they deliver it as directed by the Lord. No wonder they can be cranky. Ha.

Springs

"God has instituted prayer so as to confer upon his creatures the dignity of being causes." — Blaise Pascal

Forum Information

Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 4:11 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual