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phil_five
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 29

Posted 12/11/2003 7:10 AM (GMT -6)

Should Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore remove his monument of the 10 commandments?

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/11/2003 9:16 AM (GMT -6)

We need a detente in the cultural wars.

That means we seek to promote values privately, not publicly.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/11/2003 10:01 AM (GMT -6)

I wasn't able to click in my vote because I looked at the results first. I tend to think that the guy shouldn't be making such a fuss about keeping up the monument. As much as I believe that God still wants us to uphold the 10 Commandments, acceptance of the Gospel message by non-Christians is hindered when Christians do stuff like this judge is doing. After all, in this country there's separation of church and state. So, it's sort of better to pick your battles. What he's doing is creating "religious persecution" for himself where none needed to be.

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

Blood Washed Heretic
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167

Posted 12/11/2003 10:37 AM (GMT -6)

It's already been moved.

In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

John Earp
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715

Posted 12/11/2003 11:03 AM (GMT -6)

This issue really pertains to the foundations of American Law, not religion per se. The United States Supreme Court, in deference to the foundations upon which our system of laws is based, has a replica of the Ten Commandments in its very courtroom! This is not at all about "Christians pushing their religion on others," but is simply about the historical background of American jurisprudence.

"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/11/2003 11:10 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by John Earp

This issue really pertains to the foundations of American Law, not religion per se. The United States Supreme Court, in deference to the foundations upon which our system of laws is based, has a replica of the Ten Commandments in its very courtroom! This is not at all about "Christians pushing their religion on others," but is simply about the historical background of American jurisprudence.

Oh, well I change my answer then. Big Smile

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/11/2003 11:50 AM (GMT -6)

Where we historically influenced by the ten-commandments, sure.

Does that mean we should have the symbol in one of our top court case rooms? Not if it is judged to be an infringement on the separation of Church and State, as it was.

We have more important battles than this and our comparative advantage has always been in private interactions with people, not public pronouncements on symbols of morality, like the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Are people going to be moral because they hear/say those words when reciting the pledge?

dlw

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/11/2003 11:52 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Where we historically influenced by the ten-commandments, sure.

Does that mean we should have the symbol in one of our top court case rooms? Not if it is judged to be an infringement on the separation of Church and State, as it was.

We have more important battles than this and our comparative advantage has always been in private interactions with people, not public pronouncements on symbols of morality, like the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Are people going to be moral because they hear/say those words when reciting the pledge?

dlw

DLW,

I just knew my last response was gonna compel you to speak out! Wink

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

Blood Washed Heretic
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167

Posted 12/11/2003 12:09 PM (GMT -6)

Seriously you guys, it's already been moved. Moot point. Evil Tongue

Yeah, sorry about my flippant-ness (is that a word?), but as DLW said, MUCH more important matters for believers to be fretting about.

In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/11/2003 12:13 PM (GMT -6)

Tigress,

Your scintillance always provokes me.

dlw Evil

phil_five
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 29

Posted 12/11/2003 12:52 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Blood Washed Heretic

Seriously you guys, it's already been moved. Moot point.

Yeah, sorry about my flippant-ness (is that a word?), but as DLW said, MUCH more important matters for believers to be fretting about.

Fair enough and I agree there are more important things. I do, however, find it interesting how loads of evangelical leaders are so adamant about it (not being moved).
One paralleled it to aspects of the civil rights movement, and that makes this issue, that would seem to be trivial, out to be something that "we Christians ought not question."

Phil

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/11/2003 1:09 PM (GMT -6)

I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of religious leaders are in the pockets of the republican party and seeking to make sure that values are on the minds of people voting in the upcoming election.

dlw

John Earp
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715

Posted 12/11/2003 4:45 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Where we historically influenced by the ten-commandments, sure.

Does that mean we should have the symbol in one of our top court case rooms? Not if it is judged to be an infringement on the separation of Church and State, as it was.

The idea of "separation of church and state" was originally simply and only meant to avoid the European state-church model, and to promote freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Simply as a tribute to our heritage as a country founded on the idea of God-ordained law and order (see the Declaration of Independance--all are CREATED equal), the Ten Commandments has a righteful place in our legal system. The problem was, many Christians tried to make this into a religious issue when strictly speaking it was not. Even the Alabama constitution refers to an acknowledgement of God (gasp--"religion") and our dependence upon him.

And the point is not moot, as the U.S. Supreme Court has a replica of the Decalogue in its courtroom.

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/12/2003 5:07 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Tigress,

Your scintillance always provokes me.

dlw

Uh, DLW honey, "scintillance" isn't in the dictionary. Blush

Sorry for you.

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 12/12/2003 5:18 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Tigress

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Tigress,

Your scintillance always provokes me.

dlw

Uh, DLW honey, "scintillance" isn't in the dictionary. Sorry for you.

Tigress takes DLW to school.

scintillation is the word he wanted to use.

As always, a scintillating conversation between you two.

And an innocuous, inane, insipid post by me.

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/12/2003 5:33 AM (GMT -6)

Hey, hey, hey...

I live in a country that doesn't speak English as first language. I'm allowed to get things wrong once in a while.

Well at least Laika posts aren't obtuse.

dlw Evil

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 12/12/2003 5:50 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
Well at least Laika posts aren't obtuse.

dlw

The angles of the posts aren't acute?

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/12/2003 5:56 AM (GMT -6)

I think they are only 90 degrees. Don't angles have to have less than 90 degrees to be acute? It's been a while since I've had geometry.
dlw

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/12/2003 6:44 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Hey, hey, hey...

I live in a country that doesn't speak English as first language. I'm allowed to get things wrong once in a while.

Well at least Laika posts aren't obtuse.

dlw

If you can't even speak your own language correctly, how the heck can you be coherent to people in a non-English-speaking country? Tongue

Ah well, I wouldn't be surprised if the locals down there secretly call you El Gringo Stupido or something! (And no, I obviously didn't take Spanish in school, so I have an excuse for not speaking it correctly!) Big Smile

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/12/2003 6:50 AM (GMT -6)

Yo soy el gringo profesore y yo puedo hablar ingles y espanol mejor que usted!

Bandit

dlw

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 12/12/2003 9:16 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

Yo soy el gringo profesore y yo puedo hablar ingles y espanol mejor que usted!

dlw

Davy, please tell me what it means. Shy

Pretty please? Shy

With sugar on top? Shy

Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 12/14/2003 6:18 AM (GMT -6)

I am the gringo professor and I can speak Spanish and English better than you.
dlw Evil

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