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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > What do "Conservatism" and "Liberalism" even MEAN? | Forum Quick Jump
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 8/11/2006 9:22 AM (GMT -6) |   |
selah said... . Didn't we meet at some political gathering ... can't remember the name of the hosting organization in Indiana, but I thought it had some sort of political agenda you aligned yourself with.... I could be wrong though.
Yes I had the pleasure of meeting you (and others) in Indiana at the EEM “Is God to Blame” conference; I didn’t wash my cheek for a week. I didn’t know it was a “political gathering” though, Mr. Sanders and Mr. Boyd were the guest speakers, but hey maybe Greg was priming up for running in 2008. Wow I had never been to a political rally before, that was fun, let’s do it again.
Selah: Anyway, by stating "the kernel of piercing truth is Jesus Christ, King of Kings" you're carrying a "Boydian" banner my friend. Power under america is NOT the message. Power under each other (as in love one another as I have loved you - ALL people/nations included) IS the "Boydian" message.
So you say I’m carrying a "Boydian" banner. Heck, I’m proud to say that I’m half Boydian, you should try my kicking Boydian Goulash.
Love, peace and apple pie,
Mark
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. | | Back to Top | | |
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Humphrey Bogart
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 205
| Posted 8/11/2006 9:32 AM (GMT -6) | | Laika said...
Hey taxi driver, howz it going?
Seen this yet?
http://www.alanrhoda.net/blog/
It's going pretty well. I gave up the taxi driving, it was a bit depressing. I understand where Robert De Niro was coming from. At the moment I'm doing an MA in philosophy part-time at Sydney Uni, and finding a bit of work here and there - possibility of a tutoring job next year. I'm actually doing the census distribution and collection at the moment (we're in the middle of our five-yearly federal government census at the moment).
I hadn't seen the Alan Rhoda blog. Very interesting! It so happens I'm doing a subject in vagueness at the moment, so his comments on that are relevant. I like the semantic view though. It sounds like Alan wants to make vagueness a metaphysical phenomenon and I suspect he's tending to fuzzy logic. My lecturer holds that view and has published a bit on it, but I'm not convinced. But that's a long story.
I have one criticism re the following statement:
Alan's blog said...
To say that LEM ought to hold always and everywhere is tantamount to saying that reality is perfectly sharp and determinate all the way down and that vagueness is always merely epistemic, a function of the inexactness of our language and of our concepts.
The problem is that this confounds two different views of vagueness, the epistemic and the semantic. I am not an epistemicist, but I think that vagueness does relate to the inexactness of our language. That's the semantic view.
Regarding the continuum issue, I'm not convinced. As Alan notes, the continuum can be regarded as an infinite collection of infinitesmal points. But, as I understand it, he wants to say that this is all mathematically well and good, but it's not "metaphysically basic". I would argue for the opposite position. I'm not convinced that the concept of a continuum is intelligible without the attendant concept of both infinity and the infinitesmal. I'm thinking aloud here, but when we abstract from specific instances of phenomenal experiences of particular continua of, say, spatial colour, it seems to me that it is the finite span (say of spatial colour) that we treat as indefinite for the purposes of abstraction. But in taking it to be indefinite, we automatically introduce in principle the idea of unlimited variation in respect to what we are treating as indefinite - indeed, that is what abstracting is (in my humble phenomenological opinion). The only constraints we can introduce on the variation must be inherent to the thing itself, but in the case of the continuum, it doesn't seem that there are inherent constraints. That is, it doesn't seem that the continuum by virtue of its phenomenal nature must be made up of finite and discrete components. So it seems that even to abstract the idea of a continuum presupposes or brings with it the idea of infinite variation and the infinitesmal. Indeed, all this leads me to believe that perhaps the infinite and the infinitesmal are the most basic of all logical categories, the abstractions on which all other abstractions depend.
I've been thinking about the continuum issue for quite a while - indeed, I am thinking of doing my MA thesis on it - and I've actually switched from an earlier position of finitism to kind of the opposite pole. You can divide philosophers up, roughly speaking, into those who regard the finite as being basic, and the infinite as just an abstraction from the finite - e.g. Hume, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, those who regard the infinite as basic and the finite as just a construction from the infinite - e.g. Spinoza. I've gone to the priority of the infinite position. This has massive and interesting metaphysical implications. I think it might actually yield interesting arguments for the existence of God - although the nature of the God it yields might be somewhat non-classical. Also, as always I tend to gravitate in an idealist direction, so that puts a different spin on things and enables an argument for the existence of God that may not be possible for a realist, who is more likely to end up with an infinite universe than an infinite mind (or both, as in Spinoza).
In short: metaphysical priority of the infinite + idealism = God (an infinite mind)
From the blog, there are two ways to interpret Alan. He could be taking the priority of the finite position, and just taking the continuum as something finite. Or he could be trying for a third position that regards the continuum as something distinct from both the finite and the infinite. Either position seems to me fraught with difficulties, but I'd have to know exactly what he holds before being more specific.
All of this last part of my post here seems particularly unrelated to the topic of this thread, so I'll repost it in another area under the heading "reflections on Alan Rhoda's blog". I'll respond to any comments over there!
Alan, are you there?Post Edited (Humphrey Bogart) : 8/11/2006 10:14:25 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 8/11/2006 10:03 AM (GMT -6) | |
Violin for God said...
I'm not sure how a person can be "apolitical" unless the person is completely apathetic about the state of the society in which one finds oneself.
I’m not saying we should not be involved in anyway. Being half Boydian, I’m just saying, “don’t get life from it”. I suppose if the cultural war ever turned into a civil war I just might move up into the mountains and become a ascetic monk, you know become a dessert father, a hermit. I always liked Herman’s Hermits, didn’t they have the hit “Kum Ba Ya”.
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. Post Edited (sparknheart) : 8/11/2006 10:13:50 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 8/11/2006 10:15 AM (GMT -6) | |
Humphrey Bogart said...
From the blog, there are two ways to interpret Alan. He could be taking the priority of the finite position, and just taking the continuum as something finite. Or he could be trying for a third position that regards the continuum as something distinct from both the finite and the infinite. Either position seems to me fraught with difficulties, but I'd have to know exactly what he holds before being more specific.
All of this last part of my post here seems particularly unrelated to the topic of this thread, so I'll repost it in another area under the heading "reflections on Alan Rhoda's blog". I'll respond to any comments over there!
Alan, are you there?
Jump in over there, I'm sure you'd be welcome.
never say you're bitter, jack
bitter makes the worst things
come back
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 8/11/2006 10:33 AM (GMT -6) | |
sparknheart said...
...
Yes I had the pleasure of meeting you (and others) in Indiana at the EEM “Is God to Blame” conference... Yep, that's it. What does EEM stand for again? Really, I'm clueless. All I remember is they had other speakers besides Boyd and Sanders. It was the first I'd ever heard of "moral govt." I was confused then and I'm just as confused now...I still don't know what that term means...
selah | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 8/11/2006 11:00 AM (GMT -6) | |
selah said...
Yep, that's it. What does EEM stand for again? Really, I'm clueless. All I remember is they had other speakers besides Boyd and Sanders. It was the first I'd ever heard of "moral govt." I was confused then and I'm just as confused now...I still don't know what that term means...
EEM: Evangelical Education Ministries
"The purpose of Evangelical Education Ministries is to propagate spiritual truth so that people may have a saving subjective experience with Christ based upon objective truth that will enable them to sustain holiness of heart."
John Earp invited us. Before that, I had never heard of it either. I thought it would be fun so I went, I enjoyed it.
As far as I know, EEM has no political affiliations.
The "Moral Government of God" is cool. But like anything, you can find forms of perversion when taken to extremes.
Love is like a ball in a game of catch: throw it and it will come back to you; hold onto it and that ends the game. Post Edited (sparknheart) : 8/11/2006 11:06:27 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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