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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 12/12/2006 5:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | | A friend emailed me this link to a blog a while ago. The thread "Which 'art' in heaven" got me thinking about it again. Since reading it, I came to the conclusion that it's kinda strange how certain words are "outlawed" in the church because of the "inappropriate for church" factor or "it offends me" factor.
What really makes a word inappropriate in church? I hope that question doesn't sound silly. Words are meant for conveying a message and intention of the speaker's heart but at the same time we shouldn't forget the Corinthians passage (I think that's where it is) about not eating meat in the presence of one who is strugging.
Personally, I would have liked to have been at that church the day when the F-Bomb poem was read.
What gets me is how certain words are now simply "outlawed" among many traditionalists, not because of the meaning behind the words, but because of the words themselves. (At least... that's my current assessment) It's like the possibility of being offended creates the rule (specifically, the "group of words to be banned from the building").
Would you allow the F-Bomb to be spoken in your church even if it might mean some people may leave because of it?
If your answer is no, how would this differ from other allowances.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/12/2006 6:01 PM (GMT -6) | |
Violin for God said...
What really makes a word inappropriate in church? Simply, church should be considered for two things. First ,it is Christ's body ruled by the Holy Spirit. It is not a human organization, nor is it a movement of some sort. Second, Church is a path to God through repentance, worship, intercession, proclaimation of Christ and Communion with Him and his Body, and a commitioning to go out and serve and proclaim the Gospel.
Unless any of these things I've mentioned is impossible without questionable "bombs" they should be regarded as *not* church, but merely as social movement, performance, etc.
We are called, collectively and individually, to fast and pray: "When you fast..." Fasting from unedifying language should be held in common, to the loving support of eachother.
Who are we trying to impress?
Schockers are anything but rare in church. They have their front row place. Let them come: repentance, penance, confession. (I heard a publick comfession in church last week that had to do with an arrest the guilty husband had incurred for treatement of his wife -- this was the reacceptance after having Communion withheld by the Church.) We are ALL the worst of sinners -- nothing should shock us.
But more sin, right in church, that's insincere.
They hymn tells us to "lay aside all earthly cares." Vulgarity included.
Church is joinng with the Church Victorious, martyrs aroudn the Lamb's throne. "Holy things for the holy." Wash in the Baptism of the tears of repentance.
Kneeling!
Lay aside childish things.
(...speaking as a Christian artist...)
(o) Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 12/12/2006 5:40:19 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 12/12/2006 7:57 PM (GMT -6) | | |
I agree that using profanity simply for shock value is both unnecessary and unedifying to the church itself, but suppose if a person uses certain words to explain the depth of their depravity or to describe the type of person they used to be, would it still be bad? Again, yes it does depend on the people who are in the church body. But the context in which the word is spoken makes a HUGE difference. When a person uses such a word, is it simply profane or is a word that accurately describes the message that the person is trying to convey? Is the word itself a sin? Out of the heart the mouth speaks, right?
How about this example: when Jesus used the word Raca in Matt 5:22, he used the word to warn people against not just the word itself, but the whole intention behind it. When a person uttered that word against another person, it was intentional, a descriptor of how the utterer viewed the other person. It was a descriptor of the utterer's heart condition. Now let's replace the word Raca with something even harsher, such as the f-word. Would the f-word have been inappropriate for Jesus to use in that context?
To many, yes the f-word is an expletive. For those who are in the gutter, it's not - it's "their" word... an important part of their vocabulary simply as an emphasis word. For people from Romania, though they may say the word, it doesn't carry nearly as much weight as it does to us. In German, I've often heard people in all different types of contexts use the S-word... it's a noun, a verb, an adjective and as far as I can tell, it isn't quite as taboo as our S-word. I've heard Christians use it, politicians use it, etc.
I heard a story from a guy who went to some kind of rock concert to evangelize to those at the concert. Long story short, he pretended that he was stuck in a bucket and asked another guy (high as a kite) to help him get out. The high guy tried to help him and couldn't free him from the bucket. The bucket guy asked the high guy what was going on and ended up conveying the gospel message, though every other word he used was a bomb. A huge crowd was gathered around them and apparently many came to repentance. Now did the bombs distort the message? If that guy were to plant a church right there with all those people who converted, should he immediately forbid them from using bombs in church? If he were to preach from the cardboard box, should he refrain from using the common language (the "vulgar lingo") of those people simply because he wouldn't use it in other churches? Now as a person becomes convinced that it's not appropriate, they should refrain from using it. But when talking with non-believers, sometimes I might use a word from their vocabulary IF it makes the message more understandable to them. Would I be guilty of sining?
But if I'm talking to someone in church who just got off drugs and the streets and they use the f-word, should I ask them to stop? Are they using it to shock or offend? If the usage of the word might cause others to stumble back into their old ways, then I might say something about it, but until then, though I'd certainly notice the word (because I'm a lot more sensitive to its usage than in my pagan days), I would let it go.
Post Edited (Violin for God) : 12/12/2006 7:00:15 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 12/13/2006 9:44 AM (GMT -6) | | For me, I think that we can count on the Holy Spirit when we get into situations like this. I believe that God will provide discernment for us, individually and corporately, if we are open.
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Therefore (YOU) go and introduce all peoples into the Way, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and intstructing them in following everything I have commanded you. (Great Commandments!)
And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age."
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 12/13/2006 2:42 PM (GMT -6) | | Yeah, good points - a lot depends on one's history with the words. I'd even venture out to say that the words with which we grew up and the contexts in which they were used have a much deeper impact on us emotionally than the words we learn later in life (and I'm of course just speaking from my own experience... after all, I only got a (ahem...) 420 on my verbal SAT in high school... when I was little, I was pretty good at making up my own Heather-lingo in order to express myself, even though I was the only one (and God) who could understand myself!) I've learned a lot more vocabulary since then, especially since being married to a lexicon! But there's still a deep attachment to the old words - perhaps it's some sort of "emotive power" they still carry. Of course with the vocabulary I've gained later in life, those are more descriptive and definable in a more linear-ish, cognative-ish sense (and they can be considered "safe words"), but for me they still lack the emotive power. But still, I've always had a difficulty expressing myself and I don't want the words (or lack thereof) to be a roadblock in being able to express myself to God. (Not that I make any habit of using these words in prayer... I don't, but I'm discussing the possibility and thinking over whether it could be appropriate when used with wisdom and discernment)
And D, you bring up a very important point too... wisdom & discernment. When getting into this territory, if one doesn't use discernment and doesn't keep a keen awareness of the Holy Spirit's guidance in this, it would almost be like a bull in a china shop. If a person (particularly one who has been in the faith for a long time) decides to venture into this area, they absolutely MUST have wisdom, awareness of their surroundings, and fellowship with the Holy Spirit to guide them.
Post Edited (Violin for God) : 12/13/2006 1:48:40 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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