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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/16/2004 5:48 PM (GMT -6) |   | Does anyone have a picture of a cat chasing its tail they could post right about here?  | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 4/17/2004 6:39 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Lee Merrill
PR 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord, it will stand.
PR 21:30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord.
ISA 8:10 Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted; propose your plan, but it will not stand, for God is with us.
Yes, there are conditions expressed in Scripture, but these speak (I think) from our perspective, and do not tell us of contingencies in God's plan. No plan can beat God's plan, no choice men can make will frustrate his purpose...
You're right. God will have a bride. But it's up to each individual whether they are in that or not.
No one can frustrate God's ultimate plans, but each can opt out on their own if they're crazystupid enough.
The old covenant illustrated that. God choose Abraham. Abraham's descendants were included. Yet, Aachan opted out and Rahab opted in.
inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade | | Back to Top | | |
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 4/17/2004 9:36 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Lee:
PR 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord, it will stand.
PR 21:30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord.
ISA 8:10 Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted; propose your plan, but it will not stand, for God is with us.
Laika: No one can frustrate God's ultimate plans, but each can opt out on their own if they're crazystupid enough.
The old covenant illustrated that. God choose Abraham. Abraham's descendants were included. Yet, Aachan opted out and Rahab opted in.
I shall stop chasing my tail for a moment, and respond...
But this only works if God has an overall plan for groups of people, and not individuals. I think Scripture teaches both, actually:
LK 7:30 But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.
So did the Pharisees frustrate God's plan? No, I don't think they did:
RO 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs...
I think this includes even those rebellious Pharisees, and we may hope that God's plan to reach them will even succeed.
RO 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Here's another verse!
PR 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.
I think that's saying the Lord has a plan for every individual. And then the above verses show that that plan will not fail...
Anyway, if you believe that God's ultimate plan to save people will not fail, then are you proposing a threshold? I don't think there is a way God can plan to save any specific percentage of people, if it's up to their free will. And then there's this verse that I discussed with John, that seems to say that God will save all of one group of people:
RO 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved...
If one person in that group opts out, then that spoils the plan...
Blessings,
Lee
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