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Ezekiel
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 4
| Posted 12/31/2011 7:49 PM (GMT -6) |   | Just for kicks, I thought I'd share this - what must be the weakest argument against Open Theism I've ever encountered 
www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-lenormand/why-i-reject-open-theism/223232741053006
Why I Reject Open Theism
by Jeff Lenormand on Sunday, July 24, 2011 at 3:34pm
Why I Reject Open Theism
By Jeff Lenormand
Many volumes have been written on refuting Open Theism. I’d like to share my personal reasons for rejecting the theory, and I can do it in two short steps. You may not be convinced by my reasoning, but it settles the matter for me.
Instead of turning this into a “Calvinist vs. Arminianist” situation, let’s for the sake of argument grant that human beings have libertarian free will. Even under that assumption, I believe Open Theism falls.
Step 1.
Open Theists will agree that God is the ultimate being, and as such God knows all true propositions. For instance, God knows, “It is true that My name is YWHW,” and He also knows, “It is true that My name is not Bob.” However, the Open Theist will claim that the statement, “Bill will eat Oatmeal tomorrow for breakfast” is neither a true statement nor a false statement; it is neither. Why is this so? Because no future event is a reality until it happens. Until it occurs it is only a potential reality. Therefore, God can no sooner know the reality of a future tensed proposition than He can know the reality of a square circle or a married bachelor. He can only know possible, or potential, outcomes. For example, since God knows Bill perfectly, He knows that Bill prefers Oatmeal over all other breakfasts, so Bill’s choosing Oatmeal is highly probable. But God also knows that Bill does, on occasion, like Cheerios so there is a slightly less chance that he will pick that, but a chance does exist. God then knows that Bill will PROBABLY choose Oatmeal, but He doesn’t know that he won’t choose Cheerios instead.
But on just simple reflection, we can plainly see that “Bill will eat Oatmeal tomorrow for breakfast” IS either a true statement or a false one. It is NOT neither. The Open Theist imposes this definition of what is knowable and then works from there. But I see no reason to accept their definition, much less seeing that God knowing the future is as contradictory as a married bachelor or a square circle. Any one of you reading this right now can see the obvious difference between the two. Don't be led by their definition.
Step 2:
Since God knowing the future specifically, exhaustively, and perfectly is not a logical contradiction, what the Open Theist must conclude is that their God must say to those that envision a God that CAN know the future, “No, I can’t do that.” If that is God, then the God I envision is much more powerful than the God that is, therefore God is not the ultimate being. In other words, my imagination is bigger than He.
Jeff Lenormand: Lest anyone claim I'm not representing the Open Theist's position accurately, here is a more refined and direct explanation of the theory that God does not know the future. This is a direct quote from Dr. John Sanders, an Open Thiest, during a debate with Dr. James White on the subject:
"God DOES have perfect knowledge of future events. But we have to get to the question much more refined and that is, 'What is the nature of the future and what are events?' because I don't believe the future exiists, so I don't believe those events are there. So, God has perfect knowledge of all reality and God's knowledge OF reality is as reality is. If the future doesn't exist then God knows it doesn't exist and God doesn't have any illusion about a reality that does not exist."
July 24 at 3:57pm
Matthew Wilkins: A simple refutation of open theism is: How can people prophecy?
July 29 at 8:13am
Matthew Wilkins: namely in OT times
July 29 at 8:13am
Jeff Lenormand: The Open Theist would point out situations like the Assyrians repenting and avoiding God's prophecied destruction as an example of God "changing His mind."
July 29 at 6:17pm | | Back to Top | | |
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J.N.Darby
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 124
| Posted 1/2/2012 2:12 AM (GMT -6) | | Yeah, I know this guy (Jeff).
>>Let's hope Jeff plays the guitar better than he reasons.<<
He does
>>Jeff should read more.<<
He really really should, and he really really doesn't. I seriously doubt he has ever cracked open a Bible for serious reading or study, aside from hunting down any proof-texts that he imagines proves his points. | | Back to Top | | |
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