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Bobber
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 7/9/2004 3:42 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
When I first was born again at the age of five, all I knew was that God loved me and wanted to forgive me for my sins, and that I just had to ask him to, and to enter my heart. I had no concept of the Trinity in my mind whatsoever. But to hear feel, I wasn't really saved. Interesting. I wonder how many people feel believes ARE saved?
I think I would have to agree with John here....I believe in the trinity....I believe it is important to do so for certain reasons...but to question someones salvation in regard to it...well no I wouldn't agree with that...should we not have sound doctrine? Yes but always remember the heart of the Father is to do everything he can to get people into heaven...he's not trying to keep them out! If one believes that Jesus died for their sins and that his precious blood has remitted their sins, and that eternal life was imparted into their spirits causing them to become born again then they are saved....
There are I think many various doctrines or things that the Bible even teaches that will not keep someone out of heaven for not understanding....I was thinking on the subject of soul sleep, which I don't believe in...when you die you're asleep....I believe you're with the Lord alive and conscious....but I thought at one time someone wasn't even saved if they believed in SS....but then I got to thinking that there are some Bible teachings which are true and important to get right...but will God keep on out of heaven if for whatever reason they don't totally get all things right? I don't think so...like I say I think God would say to us that im trying to get people into heaven not trying to keep them out....
there are some which don't think you're saved if you don't get right nearly every doctrine under the sun....water baptism...got to do it just right, do you do it in the name of the Father or the Son or the Spirit? Speaking in tonugues....not saved if you don't get that right? Paying tithes? How about not saved if you don't understand end time prophecy just the way some do? The list can go on and on....like I said I think we need to catch the Spirits heart, that being that he's trying to get people into heaven...not keep them out....  | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/10/2004 3:03 AM (GMT -6) | | 
The economy is "The Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit" (Eph 2: 18-22). | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/10/2004 6:23 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
I don't find anywhere in Scripture where one has to correctly articulate the doctrine of the trinity (which wasn't officially sanctioned until Nicea in 325 A.D.) in order to be truly saved.
John, of course you are right -- technically. But 325 is not a magic number. What gave Arias such wide support is the widespread reaction to Paul of Samosata. Origin's writing -- who was from Alexandria just as Arias (a presbyter) and his bishop Alexander were -- could be slanted to worry people that "that" was creaping back. The 200s lead up to 325.
But what DOES matter is that twisted views CAN endanger salvation. Thinking that the Son is a creature changes what "worship" is, and the whole plan of salvation.
Someone MAY be in some jungle, and feel in their heart and head that "God raised the god-man from the dead, and that God is a rewarder of those who seek him" -- as Paul wrote. I think that happens. But twisted views can spell trouble.
Some early bad theology taught that Jesus became worthy. Earned it. But that means that we have to earn it too. (Jehovah's Witnesses, anyone?)
Here's what I'm reading: 
PoW | | Back to Top | | |
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aquinas
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 36
| Posted 7/19/2004 5:08 AM (GMT -6) | | There are people who identify themselves as "Calvinist" who do not adhere to a compatibalistic view of free will. I, for example, agree with the Calvinist who says that God knows all future events (since all future events can be known by God) and that He is the cause of our free will. I also agree that God "chose" us before the foundations of the world and that this choosing is not dependant on our choosing.
I differ from most Calvinist (especially those who follow John Piper, R.C. Sproul, Edwards, etc.) in that I think compatibalism is absurd. This breed of Calvinism makes man the instrumental cause of his actions rather than the efficient cause.
If anyone is interested in talking about another kind of Calvinism, (one that maintains God's sovereignty and mans libertarian free will) I would be interested in doing this.
Matt 
If we allow pious feelings to decree what nature should be, we are bound to wrong nature, for how could we find in piety a principle of self-restriction? In theology, as in any other science, the main question is not to be pious, but to be right. For there is nothing pious in being wrong about God! --Etienne Gilson | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/19/2004 6:02 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by aquinas
If anyone is interested in talking about another kind of Calvinism, (one that maintains God's sovereignty and mans libertarian free will) I would be interested in doing this.
Fits all the Calvinists that I know (in my church).
quote:
the theatrum mundi or theater of the world that comprises Calvin’s history of salvation by God in the realm of the created order. He explains the virtutes Dei (qualities of God) in terms of His accommodation to us, and the exercise of this power and quality of God in the theater of human life (table 42).
www.apuritansmind.com/Reformation/McMahonInterpretingJohnCalvinSummary.htm
quote:
FROM THE SAME:
Appendix E deals with Calvin’s theology against the Libertines, where he demonstrates God’s care in governing the universe in three ways: 1) universal operation, 2) God’s work in creatures for them to serve him, and 3) He governs his believers by the Holy Spirit. Appendix F is a notation demonstrating Calvin’s twofold knowledge of God possibly being drawn in part from quoting Clement’s Paidagogoes.
IT LOOKS to me from the second one, that the "governs his believers" stems from Calvin's bit of "created grace" left in his system from Aquinas. Too bad. He didn't need it. He did have a grasp of Grace as being God's energies. He's just to awed by God's transcendance and ignorant of Palamas to have an alternative. How would the history of European Protestantism been different otherwise??? (No TULIP!)
Looks worthwhile: quote:
Schreiner, Susan E. The Theater of His Glory: Nature and the Natural Order in the Thought of John Calvin.
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