 |
| 
archive
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:32 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Wislawa
06/12/01 1:25 PM
The phenomenology of sin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the things that I like about this website is that it allows me the chance to practice expressing theological blemishes I have. Like going to a psychologist who can’t help you much if you can’t answer her questions about how you are feeling lately, theology can’t help us much if we can’t express what really bugs us about our own theologies. A sick theology will remain a sick theology if we cannot express sickness. I find ferreting these things out sometimes difficult. Here’s a shot at it:
I just read this sentence in a book: “Sin is a broken relationship with God.”
Theologically I square with this sentence 100%. Phenomenologicaly, however, it doesn’t seem to be relevant at all. The status of our relationship with God has always been a complete mystery (at least this has been my experience). Each moment God feels absent. He could die for all we know and we wouldn’t be able to notice a change. The next moment we sin in our hearts, we lust in thought perhaps. Nothing changes. God is still as absent—He could still be dead for all we know.
In my relationship with a friend, however, broken and healthy relationships are the easiest thing to spot. I e-mailed a friend when I was angry with her and she e-mailed an equally angry letter back. Both said things we shouldn’t have. I started it. I sinned against her and now I put my relationship with her at odds. This is perceivable.
With God, however, it doesn’t matter. I’m faced with temptation. Should I give in or should I resist? Will it matter with my relationship with God? I resist—nothing changes; I give in—nothing changes. What happened to this so-called relationship with God that phenomenologicaly is no different than a relationship with an imaginary friend?
–Wislawa
P.S. This also lies behind my fascination with the Pharisees and Scribes. They thought they had a good relationship with Yahweh. Little did they know… But can we blame them? How could they have known? We may be in the same position without being able to tell. Phenomenologicaly Yahweh/Jesus/Spirt feels more like the Deist’s God to me.
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
Mephi2K
06/12/01 2:23 PM
Quick Answers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oooh. Marry me, you Riddler, you. (Just don't tell my wifey, ok? LOL )
Let me say two quick things.
1) I would agree with Philip Yancey in his "Reaching for the Invisible God" Sometimes it just gets down to acting AS IF the whole thing is true through some of those moments of intense doubt until your faith kicks back in. This whole idea is often necessary because of God's often absence.
2) Hmmm. I'll do this as a poll somewhere here. But I'd like everyone to think about this. Think about how God is portrayed in the Bible BY HIS ACTIONS to various people at various times. I mean ALL actions. Old Testament and New. Now, be honest, if you had a HUMAN PERSON who treated you the way that God has treated people ON THE WHOLE, would you consider that person worthy of being your best friend? Be honest. Long bouts of silence. Sometimes seeming indifferent. Being cryptic about their methods. Saying that they love you ALL the time...but being sporadic about really showing it. Leaving you alone when you seem to need them most. Always referring to specific acts of the past when you question their PRESENT actions. "Just trust me, pal. I gotcha back. Remember that time that I..." Sometimes saving your butt and sometimes just leaving you to fry...for what seems to be no good reason.
If you had someone WHO WAS NOT GOD who acted almost exactly like Jesus, in many ways...would you really be trying to have them as your best friend? Piety aside, y'all, I would venture to say NOT MANY would. And THAT's with someone that we could see and touch. Now think about trying to have a love relationship with someone who acts like this that you CAN'T see or touch...or genuinely prove exists! I think this is integral to what you are saying, isn't it, Wis?
Meph
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
06/12/01 11:40 PM
RE: Quick Answers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wislawa says: "Phenomenologicaly Yahweh/Jesus/Spirt feels more like the Deist’s God to me."
Memphi says: "Sometimes it just gets down to acting AS IF the whole thing is true through some of those moments of intense doubt until your faith kicks back in. This whole idea is often necessary because of God's often absence."
I say AMEN! I HEAR you when you write about this Deistic God thing, Wislawa. I also agree that it takes diligence to persevere through the doubting and questioning periods, Memphi. I believe God loves, desires, and longs for us to go through these periods of questioning because it can cause us to seek Him in a deeper way and lead us to a more intimate understanding of Him. I have recently come to really understand that our whole purpose in having been created is not for what we can "DO", but the reason God created us is because He desires for us to seek after Him and learn who we are in Him.
I think God enjoys this web site because through all the questions and opinions presented on this board we are seeking truth,
hoping to come to a deeper understanding of God, and according to the bible this brings Him so much pleasure! I picture Him smiling with pleasure to all the postings that are contributed on this board
Personally, it is SO encouraging to hear fellow believers seeking to know God and understand the bible in a deeper way!
trosie
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
writerdad
06/13/01 10:18 PM
RE: The phenomenology of sin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wislawa: One of the things that Yancey points out in "Reaching For..." and one of the things I think the evangelical church has totally over emphasise is that God is our friend, as if somehow we talk to him as we do any friend. We don't. We cannot see God and God does not answer us audibly. I think Christians tend to over simplify things, which leads to wrong expectations.
Is God our friend? Not in the sense we tend to use the term, no. Who he is is far more complex then that and when we see him only as that we tend to lose reverance for him.
As far as sin goes, I think you don't think it matters because sin against God is more subtle than we realize.
Finally, would I want God as a friend, if he wasn't God? One, I see that as an invalid question because everything God does is within the context of him being God. Its like asking if I would want to be a person's friend if they were a monkey. Everything they are, all the decisions they make are within the context of being human. Therefore it is an invalid question. John 17:3 Harold
PS. "Disappointment with God," by Yancey is a good read in this area.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
writerdad
06/13/01 10:21 PM
RE: Quick Answers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mephi: as far as Jesus goes, I totally disagree with you. I don't know what Bible you have been reading, but the gospel portraits do nothing but make me wish I had known Jesus. I cannot but say a big YES, I would totally want Jesus as my friend.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
ModesofThought
06/18/01 8:50 AM
RE: RE: Quick Answers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
playin' a lil' devil's (meph's) advocate here...
You'd be cool with a friend who suggests you should hate your mother and father? Or one who disallows burial of loved ones? One who says "eat my body, drink my blood" (before communion became fashionable and pious-that is-while it still retained its primary offense as cannibalism) he doesn't properly explain himself in these things, "so that they will hear and not understand"... and then suggests that it is not acceptible to be offended at these things. One who calls a woman a dog appearantly based upon race or perhaps gender or both (Mark 7:27)? It seems Christ would be a strange and difficult "friend" indeed. You try to correct him or look out for his best interests and he calls you "Satan" and extends a very forceful rebuke. ALL denied and betrayed him, each of the disciples not withstanding. I suggest we all would do the same. A very difficult friend indeed...
So much so that one might begin to wonder if it is not a form of blasphemy to want to fraternize with God...
ps. (this was pretty rough and ready, and most of it was reiterating points made by Kierkegaard, so take it as a challenge from a certain point of view. You know I love ya writerdad!)
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
ghost-dog-girl
06/18/01 9:50 AM
RE: RE: RE: Quick Answers...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ll never be able to sing “What a friend we have in Jesus” again without thinking of cannibalism. GDG
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Up to Msg List | Send to a Friend | Help << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Community Moderators: adiaphora
Site-Specific Moderators: springs
Jump To: cdearmond's Forums Christus Victor Ministries
Christus Victor Ministries
This site is part of the Christus Victor Ministries Community
GET A FREE MESSAGE BOARD. CLICK HERE.
Add This Forum to Your Site | Get a Free Message Board | Browse Other CoolBoards
What is CoolBoard? | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | ©1999-2000 CoolBoard.com
Copyright © Christus Victor Ministries, 2000, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
| | Back to Top | | |
 | Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 4:12 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|