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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:49 PM (GMT -6) |   |
05/25/01 1:53 PM
Forsaken or Prideful?
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So here I am, 31 years after conception; college educated, world traveled, one who has questioned religions, faiths, creeds, philosophies, actions, Truth!, motives, governments, history, and the like. I was raised Roman Catholic, separated from "religion" at maybe 13 years old (when I wasn't forced to go to church anymore), and I was spiritually vacant until I was about 19. For a period of about two weeks, I thought I realized the Truth of Jesus Christ, but friends shunned me from that stance, and I began to delve into Eastern thoughts, and philosophies, especially Taoism. I think that was my only instance in life of truely accepting Jesus. I once again separated from "spiritualism" at about 25 years old, and for nearly four years and became more and more atheistic. Then nearly a year ago, I decided not to decide because I cannot know one way or another...I've been told I am a bit Deistic, but I might suggest there is a hint of Nihilism there. But then there are the things in my life that I used to attribute to coincidence and chance. I'd say 2 months ago this pile of "things" became so large and perplex that I decided to once again accept that a spiritual/unseen (supernatural?) world exists beyond my senses. I have a Christian friend who persistently tries to explain to me Christian fundamentals and truths and the triune God, and she does an excellent job, but here is the core issue of my posting of this thread (besides some advice from readers here): I suppose its two-fold... 1) how does one sincerely open their heart and mind to Jesus? 2) can I expect one overall incident that leads me to become a true believer, rather than, as I mentioned, this whole pile of rather potential supernatural events and circumstances that I have witnessed in my life? Maybe I am seeking testimony. I am pressed for time here (I have to go to work), but I would appreciate advice or comments, and I'll check back later for juicy tidbits.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
glamdring777
05/28/01 1:12 AM
RE: Forsaken or Prideful?
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yamIam wrote:
here is the core issue of my posting of this thread (besides some advice from readers here): I suppose its two-fold... 1) how does one sincerely open their heart and mind to Jesus? 2) can I expect one overall incident that leads me to become a true believer, rather than, as I mentioned, this whole pile of rather potential supernatural events and circumstances that I have witnessed in my life?
me:
We open ourselves up to Christ when we believe he is the truth and the way. We are drawn to him by his Spirit. We can know God through his Word. How do we do it? I would say that most start at the realization they are a sinner in need of grace. From that point on it's as varied as the people that respond to his invitation. For instance a person might start out by immersing themselves in the bible, in prayer, in a church fellowship, in worship, in God inspired preaching etc. Perhaps they start out by making a covenant with God.
I'll be obediant if you show up. Maybe they have destroyed their lives and they call out to him for rescue. Some are raised in Christian families and know it all in their head and then one day it resonates in their heart and they step into the kingdom. Or they know he's true in their heart and one day it makes sense in their head.
I think there is a process for all of us, yet some can name a specific date when they first believed and for others it is more gradual acceptance.
Although I don't believe the way to know God's will is through coincidence, I do think God can use coincidence to get our attention.
I mean that if a coincidental thing happened and I thought God might be behind it I would go to his Word, prayer, spiritual authorities etc for confirmation.
I don't think it is strange that your interest in God has begun with a recognition of possible supernatural events or circumstances. I pray that you will continue to investigate until you can find your own way into faith.
glamdring
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Newcomb
05/28/01 10:06 AM
RE: Forsaken or Prideful?
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OK, yamIam, let me see if I can take a stab at this.
Let's start from ground zero. I will put the basic statements in regular text and parentheses around supporting arguments.
Either something exists OR nothing exists. (It is self evident that something exists, cagito ergo sum.)
If something exists, either it had a beginning OR no beginning. (No beginning contradicts the second law of thermodynamics and the evidences we see around us.)
If it had a beginning, then it was either self caused (something that does not exist cannot bring itself into existence) OR it was uncaused (Law of cause and effect is contradicted) OR it was caused by an external force (that is, it was created by something else).
If it was created, then it was either a natural creation (same as self created, doesn't fly), OR it was a supernatural creation. (This makes sense, something outside nature, therefore super-nature [supernatural] must have done so.)
If the cause was supernatural, then either it was an intelligent cause (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam claim this is so) OR it was an unintelligent supernatural cause (arguments for design and beauty contradict this idea).
If it was an intelligent agent, then either that intelligent agent was personal (has personality, again, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam claim this), OR it was Impersonal. (Then, where did personality come from? Eastern mysticisms claim this, but they also abandon rules of logic that get them to this spot, they are irrational.)
OK, we are now down to the three real religions. The question becomes which of these is right? Or is something else right?
The Jews claim that Jewish people are held to several hundred rules to get to God and that we Goyim merely needs to be basically good people to get there, so that's a shoe in unless you happen to be really bad. Islam claims that Jesus is a true prophet and following him will get you to heaven, and, if you are caught in a jihad, they will help you get there much faster.
Jesus, however, claimed to be the ONLY way. Now with those parameters, If I go with Jesus, I can't loose!
Since I am already overtime, let me reduce it to this: I claim that the Bible is true. That what it tells us is fact. That man sinned and needed a savior to make our relationship with God right. God wants to have an on-going relationship with you. Jesus is the only way to fix what is wrong with that relationship.
The time for screwing around with it is past.
Just an idea, but it occurs to me that you have some things in your life you think God will take away if you commit to following him. He doesn't kill your free will. You will continually struggle with those things through life, but hey, that's life. I still do too. But God, our Daddy, isn't going to kick us out if we screw up any more than I would kick out one of my kids if they screw up.
See, before we accept his free gift, we are lost. He points out sin to show us we are lost. After we accept the gift and are in his family, then he points out things in our life that mess it up, just like I try to get my kids to be good for their own sake.
Accepting him is merely that. Tell him you will accept his free gift of salvation and that you want to allow him to lead you through life. Then, start to learn and study. The goal is to do things his way, which, if you are like me, can be the opposite of what I often want to do. Start to hang with other Christians, you start to learn that they aren't as different as you might think. Then talk to God. He's there to listen and help you.
"Newk'em"
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