 |
|  writerdad Registered Member
 Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 448 | Posted 10/4/2001 5:58 PM (GMT -6) |   | The other post kind of brought out something I have been pondering on the nature of God's timelessness and I wanted to post it and get some comments and stuff. I use to believe in God being "outside time," so to speak but I have been pondering a couple of things about the subject lately. If God is outside time and views all time at the same time, that means that everything is happening at once to God. But not to us. If all time exists at once, then I must exist in the past, present and future. But since I, as me now, only exist in the present, who am I? Am I my past, my present, or my future, since all these beings are alive at the same time (does that make sense?)? Am I the person who was born, was that the real me? Or am I real only at this moment? What about the future me? Are all these different persons other than me? Is each moment a different me? It would seem that either I exist at one time, or there are billions of me in each moment? Another thought about God's timelessness is Christ. Either Jesus was always man or he, at some point of existance became man. Yet if God is timeless and has always known everything in time, wouldn't Jesus always have to be man to be timeless? Yet if he wasn't always man then there was a point at which he wasn't man and a point when he was, which makes sequence. Perhaps the struggle with God's timelessness is that we are not timeless. It is a hard subject to get around...John 17:3 Harold
| | Back to Top | | |
 |  MrIndifference Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 144 | Posted 10/4/2001 6:24 PM (GMT -6) |   | 'Dad I sort of went through the same process. One thing that sometimes plays around in my mind when thinking about God being at all times at once is how He would see things. If all linear time was present time, then in theory Christ has always been on the cross. I am eternally going through the pain of having my heart ripped out of my chest and ground into the asphault (figuratively that is). There was never a time when Satan didn't exist. In the eternal sense I could be going through hell on earth and simultaneously be in heaven. Also if all times are in the now in eternity, then how could be a beginning. In a sense, at least through my logic on this, we in essence are eternal. Blasphemy eh? If God is outside of time and all times are now, then how can there be anything before the beginning.
Am I making any sense?
Mr I.
Edited by - mrindifference on 10/04/2001 11:25:57 PM | | Back to Top | | |
 |  yankee551 Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 22 | Posted 10/5/2001 6:11 AM (GMT -6) |   | Dear Writerdad and Mr. Indifference,
At last, now I am hearing some more input on the role of Christ in response to this "timelessness" thread. I hope to hear more on this.
Sincerly, Yankee
| | Back to Top | | |
 |  GregBoyd Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 1818 | Posted 10/5/2001 6:29 AM (GMT -6) |   | The most frequently recited argument these days -- by scholars and laypeople alike -- defending divine timelessness, refuting the Open View, is the claim that Einstein's theory of Relativity proves it. Time is not real, it is argued.
I was going to post it here, but then thought it'd fit better as a new thread. But I composed a response to this line of argumentation in a thread called Relativity Theory and Sequencelessness. Check it out and give me feedback, okay?
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Bob Hill Registered Member
 Date Joined Aug 2001 Total Posts : 98 | Posted 10/19/2001 7:12 PM (GMT -6) |   | Doc,
I have read some of the ideas put forth by those really into relativity, but I do not have enough math to even begin to understand the concepts they are talking about in quantum mechanics. I’ve read that there are flaws in the theory, such as the speed of gravity being almost instantaneous and there is an ether that slows light. It’s fascinating, but it’s beyond my comprehension. Although relativity seems to be accurate in predicting many of the things scientists are discovering, Nobel Prize for instance, it’s still a theory.
Just as Plato carried great weight for years and Plotinus popularized Platonic thought, later, Augustine, because of his Manichean influence, took that philosophy and forced it onto the Bible. He then came up with his deterministic theology.
Therefore, I want to, always, start with biblical information and make deductions from God’s word. Then I want to test it with God’s word again and again.
Thanks for your input, especially, God at War.
In Christ, Bob Hill
| | Back to Top | | |
 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 10/20/2001 6:00 AM (GMT -6) |   | _____I'LL POST THIS ON THE "SEQUENCE" STRING TOO.______
Do I remember right that to say that someone said "timeless" is a kind of trap -- that by making that comparison you trap them in comparison to time. For example, there is the helpful phrase that "eternity is not bad-eternity." That one means (Warning, I just got up.) that you can't get to eternity by just counting high enough. Sound familiar? Did I get that right? Good.
Here is something different.
"Sequence" is a word used in counterpoint to "time" with respect to God on this site. Something like change is felt required for a relationship/love to take place within the trinity; and the "changeless" thought-structure from pagan Greece is the scarecrow-target that is to be especially avoided. But "time" is a sticky term -- it gets used so many ways in this debate. Gets confusing for me!
Let me provide an example of "sequence" that I personally would rather begin with than begin with the "Openness" debate. (hence O.D.) I think this is neat. Its actually familiar to. And is clearly different from "time". WE live and exist in time. Time was hurt by us -- its meaning became decay. And one of us (Christ) healed time. . .something which we experience both "now and not yet." But the "sequence" (below) of God is something which we DON'T and DO experience. (interesting)
So without further ado.....
(L. Thunberg, "Man and Cosmos", pp.54-55)
quote: . . . by divine (eternal) condescension there exists "from the beginning" a reciprocity of natures between God and man. For this reason we are allowed to say that man is created in the image of God. This reciprocity, however, should express itself in action . Therefore, we also say that man is created toward the likeness of God. Likeness manifest itself on the tropological level ("moral," if we like, through in a widest possible sense), i.e., as the manner of existence on the basis of the principle of nature. (This is the famous distinction between "principle of nature," logos physeos , and "manner of existence," tropos hyparzeos, a distinction analyzed historically an in Maximus at length by Felis Heinzer in his dissertation Gottes Sohn als Mensch, Freiberg 1980)
God, too, has his "manner of existence" On the inner Trinitarian level, it expresses itself in an eternal movement from Unity through Duality to Trinity. In regards to man it expresses itself (soteriologically) on the basis of the reciprocity of the Incarnation, i.e., God moves tropologically toward men in incarnating Himself. Man in turn, who had been tropologically made passive and turned in a false direction, moves toward God, activated by the divine movement, and thus divinizing himself.
One may ask whether the question of habitus is ever really actualized in this system of thinking. The effective instrument of salvation is rather the activation of reciprocity on the human side, as effected by the Incarnation which liberates -- through the manifestation of the divine charity -- natural powers in man related to the likeness of God for which man is destined.
"Charity is not only a divine quality, but a divine-human destiny, based on the ontological reciprocity that God established in creating man in His image and likeness. That is to say that charity alone is the truly theandric quality in man, since it is already a theandric quality of God."
PotOnWheel
(ISA 64:8 "Yet, O Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.")
| | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 11:29 AM (GMT -6) There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads. In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3 dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|