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JCsites.com
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 169

Posted 7/31/2003 5:42 PM (GMT -6)

I keep being told that because the Open View teaches that God has chosen not to pre-ordain 100% of the future, then the Open View believes that God is not 100% Sovereign or 100% Omnipotent. (redundancies mine). Thus, Open Theism is wrong.

Well here's a pack of Open View types. I keep having calvanists tell me what you believe on these matters. I think I'll ask you Open Theists to weigh in on what you believe via a fancy dancy POLL.

POLL Question: Does the Open View believe that God is not Sovereign and/or not Ominpotent?

JC Sites Guy

Make Posts Not War...

John Earp
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715

Posted 7/31/2003 6:38 PM (GMT -6)

I think the confusion arises because in Calvinism, God's sovereignty = absolute control, whereas the Open Theist sees no compelling reason from Scripture to define sovereignty in this way. It seems to me that in the OV God is MORE sovereign than in the Calvinist view, as He retains the power to change His mind when circumstances warrant.

Could we still call Queen Elizabeth "sovereign," though by no means does she micromanage everything that ever happens in her domain?

"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 8/1/2003 2:34 AM (GMT -6)

What is your name?

What is your quest?

What is your favorite color?

[:0] Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 8/1/2003 3:09 AM (GMT -6)

... Starkman
... to beat my wife
... blood red
... heavens no, for pete's sake!

(In answer to Laika's four questions!)

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 8/1/2003 3:19 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Starkman

... Starkman
... to beat my wife
... blood red
... heavens no, for pete's sake!

(In answer to Laika's four questions!)

[:0] O.K. so ETS will kick you out this fall.

(the first three ?s were from MP's Holy Grail)

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

honorman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137

Posted 8/1/2003 6:59 AM (GMT -6)

depends on who you ask...

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 8/1/2003 9:29 AM (GMT -6)

I think the majority of nos to this poll, the answer to which depends on what one means by omnipotent or sovereign goes to show how we do want God to be there for us when we really need God.

The question is what does it mean for God to be there for us. What can we trust God for and for what does God trust us?

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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