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Rpeterso
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 4/17/2003 5:36 PM (GMT -6) |   | I would greatly appreciate some help. I read Dr. Boyd’s interpretation in Is God To Blame and am concerned about his claim that Paul is not speaking about individual salvation. It appears that Paul is saying in Romans 9:7-8 that Abraham’s children, or God’s family, is not based one nationality but on God’s choice: “In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring” (Romans 9:8). Dr. Boyd, in respect to the interpretation in your new book, or anyone else, can you help me understand this better?
-Ryan
Edited by - Rpeterso on 04/17/2003 11:31:57 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 4/18/2003 12:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Look at the TOPIC Paul is discussing in this chapter.: its not HOW INDIVIDUALS are saved. It is how it is true that the word of God has not failed (9:6). Jews who trust in their nationality and works for salvation were finding Paul telling them that they are outside God's covenant because they reject Christ. They were thinking that this would imply that God's covenantal promises to them have failed. Paul is saying this is not the case, for "not all of Abraham's children are his true descendants" (vs. 7). the "true descendants" to whom God's promises apply were not so because of their nationality or works, but because of their FAITH. They are SUPERNATURALLY born (like Isaac) not NATURALLY BORN (like Ishmael). (9:7-8) To Jews who trust in their nationality and works this seems arbitrary. Against this, Paul illustrates that God has always had the perogative to choose whomever he wills. He illustrates this by showing God's choice for Israel as a nation (Jacob) over Edom (Esau) was simply his choice, based on nothing they did (9:10-16). He's not talking about who is saved here -- for he's already said that not all Jacob's descendents are TRUE descendants. He's simply illustrating God's sovereignty. He can choose whomever he wishes. So if he chooses to saved all who simply believe, not rewarding people for their nationality or works, that is his divine perogative..
The "true" descendants of Abraham are children of faith and have always been children of faith. And so, when God now offers salvation to gentiles who simply believe, his "word" is not failing. God is being consistent. But to Jews who have always trusted in their nationality and works, it SEEMS like an arbitrary change of plans. They think their "hardening" is arbitrary. Paul tells them, no, its BECAUSE of YOUR UNBELIEF (3xs in Roms 9-11).
Good question
Greg
Rom. 9:11 Even before they had been born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose of election might continue,
Rom. 9:12 not by works but by his call) she was told, “The elder shall serve the younger.”
Rom. 9:13 As it is written,
“I have loved Jacob,
but I have hated Esau.”
"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10. | | Back to Top | | |
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Rpeterso
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 4/18/2003 6:38 PM (GMT -6) | | THANKS DOC!!! Much appreciated. Everything is crystal clear now.
God Bless,
Ryan
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