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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 4/15/2003 7:48 AM (GMT -6) |   | I know that Moral Theology is attributed to one of my heroes, Charles G. Finney. However, he seemed to believe in God's exhaustive foreknowledge. Since doing research on Open Theism concepts I have since found that before Open Theism became popular, some who embraced Moral Theology in the 20th century taught similar concepts. I find that this was especially prevalent among YWAM (Youth With A Mission). I don't know if they still teach it but I believe that they did in earlier years. I am looking for some of their books now. I already have Winkey Pratney's and Elseth. I am alos looking for books by George Olson and others on this.
Are there any differences between Open Theism and Moral Theology that anyone is aware of? If there are, what are those differences?
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/16/2003 7:47 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi VW,
As a student of Finney and Moral Gov't Theology myself for the past several years, I can say you are quite correct about Finney believing in exhaustive definite foreknowledge. From what I have studied, Finney believed in the "Eternal Now" concept of God's knowledge, in which foreknowledge is really a misnomer, for all things past, present, and future are present to him in one "eternal now."
I am in contact with some former YWAMers and other MGT believers, and can say that many of them (though I don't have exact stats, of course) subscribe to what is now known of as the open view of the future.
As to how Open Theism differs from MGT, in my opinion Open Theism is not as systematically worked out, primarily with regard to soteriology, Christology, and hamartiology as is MGT. This is probably due to the fact that Open Theism scholars have more than enough to keep busy with presently, but who knows? In my opinion, Moral Gov't Theology fits perfectly with Open Theism.
I also don't think Open Theists are as much in agreement with the Wesleyan paradigm as they may claim. (Dr. Boyd and I had a discussion a few weeks ago in which we discussed Finney's views; you may want to look there to see what are some differences between MGT and at least Dr. Boyd's point of view).
I am in the process of building a website devoted to Finney, Wesley, Revival, and Open Theism. It's pretty much just in the beginning stages, but you may find some helpful info there. http://www.revivaltheology.net
Gordon Olson's stuff is available through Evangelical Education Ministries (linked on my site), Revival Theology Promotions (also linked) as well as through Bible Research Fellowship (not sure how to find BRF--you may want to contact EEM to find out).
Winkey Pratney's website has a lot of great number of audio, video, and text format teaching related to MGT. His website is also linked on mine.
Revival Theology Promotions gives away, absolutely free, a "Revival & Holiness CD-ROM that full of excellent resources pertinent to MGT.
Hope this helps. Feel free to email me personally at john@revivaltheology.net if you wish.
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see God (Heb. 12:14)
revivaltheology.net
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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 4/16/2003 10:37 AM (GMT -6) | | John
Your post was a very very big help. Thanks. Someone else e-mailed me last night and told me that I should look on your webpage (which I have visited in the past) but I could not find the EEM stuff. However, I clicked on the LD McCabe link and saw that it was the EEM webpage. I am currently printing out an article by Bruce Moylan on God's foreknowledge. I will order some of the books in the near future.
Is the discussion between yourself and Dr. Boyd still available? I am very interested in reading the dialogue between you two.
Thanks again John.
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/16/2003 2:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Is the discussion between yourself and Dr. Boyd still available? I am very interested in reading the dialogue between you two.
Hi VW,
The discussion may be found at the following link:
http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1876#top
Dr. Boyd jumps in on page 3, but the first two pages may be helpful too.
In Christ,
John Earp
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see God (Heb. 12:14)
revivaltheology.net
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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 4/16/2003 5:07 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks again John. That thread is a lot of material to read. However, my perusal of it seems to indicate that MGT advocates are (or could be) Open Theists but Open Theists do not necessarily advocate MGT or Wesleyan distinctives.
I've been influenced by some Holiness teachings as well as a lot of the Higher-Life/Keswick theology, not that they had anything systematic or a set doctrinal belief system. I can say that I believe that it is God's will that every believer walks free from sin and that He empowers us to do it. But that's a different theological matter altogether. I am now clearer about the differences between MGT and OV. Up until now, I was a little confused.
It seems to me though that the MGTers were the first OVers since their writings on the subject seem to date before the current OV debate.
I used to own a book by Dean Sherman on spiritual warfare that I gave away. I am now going to have to look at it again to see if there are similarities between his beliefs and those espoused by OV.
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
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victoryword
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 4/17/2003 10:13 AM (GMT -6) | | I found this discussion in the archives that might be of help to someone on this topic:
http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1625&ARCHIVE=
If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
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