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¡Que Payaso!
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 7/3/2003 11:06 PM (GMT -6) |   | MephEternal wrote:
quote:
We’ve already established that, in the open view, God DOES have the power to exhibit compatibilsitic determination.
On what thread was this established?
Is this "compatibalism" in the Norm Geisler sense--where the outcome is settled yet the free agent makes the choice and retains responsibility for the choice?
Payaso 
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 7/8/2003 2:03 AM (GMT -6) | | OK, I was hoping for a real-live answer to this one, but since that didn't happen...
I have since read a little further into SATPOE. Are you using "compatibilism" in the sense that God "temporarily orchestrate matters such that people's resolve is strengthened so that they act in congruity with their evil character..."?
Or are you suggesting that Geisler's compatibilism has a place in the OV?
I am asking because if compatibilism is a viable explanation for why events occur the way they do, or at least some events, then why not let it explain all events? Allowing for compatibilism in any way would seem to undermine the whole "need" for the OV. Compatibilism could easily answer the problem associated with God's Book of Known Facts (1963), could it not? Why would another explanation be necessary?
Payaso
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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ReasonableDoubt
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Total Posts : 655
| Posted 7/8/2003 4:07 AM (GMT -6) | | | Compatibilism, at least in the philosophical sense, is simply the belief that as long as a person can do what he voluntarily wishes, he is free. It doesn't deny determinism - instead it places the focus on the person's point of view. Am I being compelled or forced to do this, or am I doing it of my own volition? That's all it is. | | Back to Top | | |
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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
| Posted 7/8/2003 4:43 AM (GMT -6) | | ReasonableDoubt-sensei
quote:
Compatibilism, at least in the philosophical sense, is simply the belief that as long as a person can do what he voluntarily wishes, he is free. It doesn't deny determinism - instead it places the focus on the person's point of view. Am I being compelled or forced to do this, or am I doing it of my own volition? That's all it is.
Shoot. I thought Compatibilism was the explanation why my wife and I got along so well...
One nurse to another: "Check his feet and see if they're cold. No one ever died with warm feet."
Dying man's last words: "John Hus did."
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Tom
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| Posted 7/8/2003 2:03 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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John Earp
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 7/8/2003 6:40 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Payaso,
From what I know, the Open View says it is true that "libertarian free will becomes compatibilistic free will."
Otherwise stated as, "Choices when persisted in become habits, habits when persisted in form character, and character determines destiny."
Another special case in which the OV might affirm compatibilism would be in choices which have no moral value. It has been about a year since I read S&TPOE, but I am pretty certain that Boyd goes into some detail about how God can when necessary override free will to accomplish His purposes. It sounds as if this is a virtual denial of free will, when in reality it is simply an aspect of God's omnipotence.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 7/9/2003 3:51 AM (GMT -6) | | John said, From what I know, the Open View says it is true that "libertarian free will becomes compatibilistic free will."
I think, perhaps, the Classical and Traditional views would have to have something of the same. One way or another, eternity is secured.
Starkman
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aquinas
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Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 36
| Posted 7/16/2003 5:21 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey. This is my first post, so please forgive me if you have
discussed this elsewhere. I noticed that Norman Geisler was
being called a Compatibalist.
"Or are you suggesting that Geisler's compatibilism has a place in the OV"
Could you fill me in as to why you place him in this category?
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 7/16/2003 6:02 AM (GMT -6) | | Welcome to the board, aquinas. Nice to have you hear.
As to your question, I don't know Norm's position, so I'll let someone else answer your question.
Again, welcome!
Starkman
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¡Que Payaso!
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 7/23/2003 6:40 PM (GMT -6) | | Aquinas,
Geisler wrote, "God's predestination and human free choice are a mystery, but not a contradiction. They go beyond reason, but not against reason. That is, they are not incongruous, but neither can we see exactly how they are complementary. We apprehend each as true, but we do not comprehend how both are true" ( Chosen but Free, p. 54).
This view is known as compatibalism, for it suggests that both human free-will and divine determinism are true. Though the two seem contradictory, they are compatible, even if we do not know how. Or so the argument goes.
But apparently, compatibilism is used in different ways.
Payaso
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins | | Back to Top | | |
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