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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 6/22/2002 4:14 PM (GMT -6) |   | Tom,
I’ve been looking through your notes on Gen. 18 (finally) and typing up an outline of your argument so that I really understand it. I thought the summary you posted for “geebob” was excellent.
I have a question for you. Under the subsection The LXX weighs in, you state that the Hebrew term in Gen. 15:16 for “fill up” is mallei. I’ve checked and rechecked and it looks like the Hebrew is shaleim. Was that a mistake or have I missed something? If it was an error, I don’t think it will affect your argument in the least, but you might want to correct your notes. Now, I’m in the process of investigating the potential overlap between kalah and shaleim, and their corresponding LXX renderings.
Take care,
Payaso 
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins
Edited by - payaso on 06/22/2002 9:18:08 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 6/23/2002 9:44 PM (GMT -6) | | Payaso-
You’re right. Guess I missed that verb! Ooops. But it doesn’t look like it changes the argument at all. Let me know if you think it does.
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 6/24/2002 6:55 AM (GMT -6) | | Tom,
Well, I don't think so. Here's some work I put together on it.
There isn't much to work with describing any overlap between shaleim in Gen 15:16 and kalah in Gen. 18:21. Suntelew is used to translate shaleim in only two places that I could find: 2 Chr. 5:1 (LXX 4:22, qal) and 1 Ki. 3:1 (pi).
However, suntelew translates kalah bunches of times.
In Gen. 15:16 anapleiraw translates shaleim. This happens two other times (1 Ki. 7:51 and Isa. 60:20). Anapleiraw translates kalah zero times. Pleiraw on the other hand translates kalah twice, and shaleim only once (Dan. 5:26). So the overlap between the two Hebrew words shaleim and kalah looks kinda thin to me.
However, I guess I'm still inclined to say this part of your argument holds water. Even with the previous case where you looked at kalah and mallei though, suntelew translates mallei only once, in Gen. 29:27. Anapleiraw doesn't translate mallei at all, but pleiraw does a mess of times (more than I wanted to count).
Anyway, just a little work I did looking for overlap. My Hebrew is pretty shoddy, so I couldn't do much with the different forms and so forth.
On another note, Doc has often repeated that these narrative discourses don't "read" like anthropomorphisms. Well, I've been doing some thinking. When I was in the military, I would write a letter home from time to time and tell good ol' mom what was happening. Narrative account, right? But that didn't discourage me from using gobs of figurative language, or even stating things differently in terms that she could understand (for example, I might describe a week of field exercises as a "backpacking trip" since that's the closest thing to what I am doing that she's probably experienced). Does the fact that we are working with narrative discourse necessitate that literal statements are more abundant while figurative speech is repressed? I'm not so sure. I guess my thinking is that it wouldn't really be that odd finding anthropomorphisms right smack dab in the middle of an historical narrative.
I realize of course that if anthropomorphisms are used in narrative (even frequently), that does nothing to "prove" that the writers were speaking of God using anthropomorphisms. But it may not do anything for the OV to argue that these passages don't "read" like figurative language; it could be a moot point. Anyway, just some thoughts.
Payaso
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins
Edited by - payaso on 06/24/2002 11:57:11 AM
Edited by - payaso on 06/24/2002 11:58:50 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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