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ReasonableDoubt
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 655
| Posted 1/30/2003 12:19 PM (GMT -6) |   | What's the OV explanation of these verses? If someone could give me a link or something, that'd be great. Thanks.
Matthew 26:
20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."
22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"
23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you." | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 1/30/2003 3:28 PM (GMT -6) | | I am not sure what you mean about the verses? Do you mean how did Jesus know Judas would betray him? Or was Judas predestined to betray Jesus?
Was Judas predestined? No. It was only sufficient for God to predestine that someone would betray Jesus, not a certain person. I believe Doctor Boyd discusses Judas in one of his books, but I am not sure which (some help please).
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ReasonableDoubt
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 655
| Posted 1/31/2003 11:36 AM (GMT -6) | | Jesus told them that one of them would betray him. Basically went around the table each asking, Is it me, Lord? Apparently none of them knew if it would be them, or why would they ask Jesus.
Then when it was Judas' turn, Jesus told him, Yes, it is you.
At that point, was Judas' fate sealed?
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true."
- James Branch Cabell | | Back to Top | | |
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Newcomb
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 116
| Posted 2/5/2003 5:07 AM (GMT -6) | | This doesn't even require prescience at all, not even one hours worth, the deal was already done. Go back a few verses to v14-16: quote:
Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.
Judas was only looking for opportunity at that point. It is only necessary that Jesus knew what had already happened.
quote:
Jesus told them that one of them would betray him.
Yes, but it was a done deal by then, he was merely telling Judas that he knew. Had he said "Judah will betray me" we can only imagine Peter's response. Like many, he carried a sword as was willing to use it.
quote:
Then when it was Judas' turn, Jesus told him, Yes, it is you.
At that point, was Judas' fate sealed?
Judas had already done the deal, his choices after the deal was consumated indicate to me that the desired outcome was not the death of Jesus. He had already seen Jesus avoid death several times, why not now? He killed himself in dispair.
I don't know that Doc's view is, but this is a no brainer.
"Neuk'em" | | Back to Top | | |
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