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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 7/13/2002 5:53 AM (GMT -6) |   | Conversation from another thread,
You are proposing to this student of your word, that "God could only know what would occur, as the ultimate result, of having created agents of choice."
Whereas,
I am proposing that my teacher is wrong, and that "God would only know what could occur, as an ultimate result, from having created agents of choice."
I am suggesting we are all students of one another in the body of Christ, and you have proved to me that you are a part of that body. I enjoy your perspective, on all of the subjects that you have spoken, not just on the subject of the OV, of which I am discovering, what it is all about myself.
I have a desire to influence or persuade others in one direction or another, although.
You ask, "What difference does it actually make to me in making my choice?" Then you take away my ability to respond by saying, "Surely no difference at all!" You steal your students, "AHA!" or rather offer me no perspective of my own, by the way you have formed your proposition; I am saying this because I admire you, and hope to be offering something constructive in my observations.
I believe the following statement is incorrect…which I believe, you are suggesting is invalid, also.
"It is impossible for God, to just be aware of all possibilities that could happen, because those possibilities are only born or killed in the present time, as a result of other actions as they actually take place."
"…For whose benefit IS this world?"
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Do I really believe God wanted to repent (Jer 18:8) or felt sorry, for what He was about to do to the house of Israel, if they did not turn from their evil? Was God moved to pity, or desiring to have compassion upon them, by telling them to turn from their evil? I would like to think so. You suggest that God, "in spite of knowing the outcome", from before the foundations of the world, was truly offering them a choice. The reality you want me to accept is that or rather this,
1) God could only know what they would do, from eternity past.
2) That it could of occurred differently, if they only would of chose differently back then – in the prescience of God - eternity past, before they decided in the present.
You do not believe you are suggesting such to me, I am sure, almost, not quite  ; nonetheless, it is my constructive view, that you are and would want to be corrected.
Your current view is more popular than mine is and merely incomprehensible by many around here!
God’s Love,
Tim
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 7/14/2002 3:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Continued,
I am not stuck on the notion, that God’s foreknowledge of events must automatically mean a negation ‘of’ individual ‘Choice’, as suggested in the first scenario. However, the way you present yourself, suggests such is true over and again, as suggested by the second scenario; I am simply trying to correct you in your presentation. Moreover, I believe, that you do not think you are presenting your thoughts in such a fashion. So please, let me look closer at your two scenarios and react…
1) God knows what choices I could take, but does not know yet, which I will choose…Therefore, I may choose, what is unknown yet, from what choices God knows I could make.
This is a reaction in choice to what is known could occur!
2) God knows what choices I could take, and does know which one I will choose…Therefore, I will choose, what? Which one is known?
This is a re-enactment of what God knew ‘would’ be chosen – suggesting an oxymoron, a contradiction, and pure illogical non-sense!
"What difference does it actually make to me in making a choice? Tremendous, can I choose, from what is ‘already’, decidedly known by God – Surely no difference at all? A tremendous difference, I can choose, from what is ‘not already’, decidedly known by God.
Keith: As you will see, I actually asked you the same question twice rather than answering it for you. There is a significant difference between a "!" and a "?".
TIM: Thanks for correcting my change in punctuation…I appreciate it.
...And I am STILL welcome to answer. DOES God's foreknowledge make any difference to my choice at the time I make it, if I do not know whether God is aware of what my choice is going to be?
NO, because I would not know whether God is aware!
Nevertheless, you are not suggesting to me for the most part, whether or not God is aware. You are suggesting, He is aware that I ‘would’ write this, from eternity past and that I have a choice; simply sounds absurd to me  , good buddy!
For the benefit of being yours,
Tim
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 7/14/2002 8:54 PM (GMT -6) | | This sounds like an interesting topic and conversation, if only I knew who was saying what on the other end of the phone line.
Doc
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
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Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635
| Posted 7/15/2002 12:43 AM (GMT -6) | | http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1298&whichpage=5
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