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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 6/4/2002 6:04 AM (GMT -6) |   | My daughter pointed out another possible open text for your consideration:
Esther 4.14: Mordecai says to Esther, “For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father's family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?"
What d’ya say?
Tom
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 6/4/2002 7:49 AM (GMT -6) | | I think traditional theists would say that that is from our point of view and from God's view it would be fixed. However, what this verse does point is that the Jewish conception of the future in the Old Testament was one that incorporated our choices and they believed we could affect the future by what we did or did not do. Harold
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 6/4/2002 4:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Ditto with writerdad. Mordecai acknowledges the possibility that God had appoint Esther "for such a time as this" while, at the same time, laying out the choice she has to make and the conditional circumstances that ensue. Being ordained by God clearly did not, in his view, "lock in" a given outcome.
Greg
ps. How old is your daught TGB?
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 6/4/2002 7:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
ps. How old is your daught TGB?
Howdy-
She just turned 17 yesterday.
Tom
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GODesteem
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 34
| Posted 6/5/2002 3:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Greg Boyd wrote:
"Mordecai acknowledges the possibility that God had appoint Esther "for such a time as this" while, at the same time, laying out the choice she has to make and the conditional circumstances that ensue. Being ordained by God clearly did not, in his view, "lock in" a given outcome."
Benjamin:
It is certainly "possible" that Mordecai is simply stating that God "may" use Esther to deliver the Jewish people. After all, Mordecai did state that "relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place", which "possibly" could show Mordecai's belief in the sovereignty of God! Mordecai does NOT trust in the will of man, he trusts in the King of the Universe. God is NEVER restricted by the will of man.
"He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, "What have you done?"" (Daniel 4:35)
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geebob
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Total Posts : 94
| Posted 6/5/2002 3:55 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
It is certainly "possible" that Mordecai is simply stating that God "may" use Esther to deliver the Jewish people.
but it sure looks like Mordeci views God's plan's as based upon a free choice, as he says "If you" and clearly we see plan A and plan B.
I will gladly pay you teusday for a hamburger today.
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writerdad
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 6/5/2002 6:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Godsteem: yes it certainly could be that way. But it certainly also "could be" that when Jesus said he was the way, he meant only that he was a way. One certainly could try and see such a passage, "another way." But the plain reading of the passage in Esther shows that Mordecai saw the future as "open". Surely Mordecai trusted God, but he trusted God to bring about the deliverance in a way that brought glory to God and through the choices of human being. God is never restricted by man. In your view, yes. But in my view God willing limits himself to the choices of humans in many cases, because he loved them. As such God, in his great glory, does restrict himself. as CS Lewis asserted, the greatest miracle of omnipotence was in creating beings who had the potential to resist it. Harold
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