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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 12/5/2002 10:12 AM (GMT -6) |   | Hey, I'm still interested in why the votes cast regarding Pinnock and Sanders were so few. Weren't there several thousand in attendance? What gives? Was everybody out to lunch?
Tom
"It might take a year or two to begin to understand Calvinism. But you won't do so by reading books. It's a transformation of outlook." Al & Fred | | Back to Top | | |
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gguskid
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 32
| Posted 12/5/2002 11:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Back from a long respite from the board. I had been spending an inordinate amount of time reading and posting and decided to let it rest for a while. Besides, I have a job that I would like to keep…at least for the meantime. It puts food on the table!! This board is to close to my daily life at times and I can easily distract myself into accounting for my time on the board as time in ministry preparation. Perhaps it is a legitimate use of time though doubtful meant as a 24/7 gorging of everything theology. I digress.
It seems a black day for the ETS. It brings new meaning to the term DOGmatics. However, the balances have not been tipped so drastically one way or another, though I fear that by the end of next year, when they convene in Atlanta, that unless a drastic explosion of openness thought springs onto the scene, there will be two less names in association with the ETS.
Perhaps there would be a show of solidarity by those who voted not to send it to the Exec. Cmmtt. and leave the fellowship of the ETS with Pinnock and Sanders should they get voted out. But perhaps OVT is not a hill to die on for the many who seemed to shown sensible reasonability in voting against the motion.
I am rather amused at how things are unfolding (to use OV language). I am but a small fish in a very large pond with some really big fish but never have I come across an argument from NOT holding to inerrancy. I have had numerous discussions with those in the strictly reformed camp of Calvinism, those from a Lutheran perspective and various other evangelicals and have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER have had some one argue against OVT from an inerrancy platform. I find it rather absurd and out of the blue. In my readings (unless you enlighten me otherwise) I have not come across it as an argument. I am just starting God Under Fire so perhaps there I might find something but as of yet it has never come across the radar screen. Those voting in favor of this in the ETS are grasping at straws!!
In fact as much as I’ve read of it so far this is offered, “In contrast to process theism, open theists have a high view of Scripture” (Huffman and Johnson, God Under Fire. Grand Rapids Michigan: Zondervan, 2002: p25).
I truly believe that there needs to be a greater awareness of the openness model. That is why I believe it is vitally important that some resource network emerge. It is important for the purpose of creating a sense of security in our ministries and thereby moving us to more ably and frequently, with greater numbers and passion, openly speak of OVT as a Biblically accurate model of God.
Let’s stand behind those who have boldly and unashamedly confronted the classical theists on this issue; openly promoting the Biblically accurate account of God’s nature and character--as in the OV model--at all levels and to any degree that it may cost us rank or position.
May the Sovereign Lord of the universe be revealed in all His glory and radiance, through the showing forth of His genuine love, compassion and offer of forgiveness of sin in Christ (His ultimate and genuine gift in His dealings with humanity), to as many who would respond to Him in faith. May He richly bless those who seek to do His will and bring all honor to His name through participation in the work of building His kingdom to the praise and glory of His name.
Until That Time...
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¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108
| Posted 12/5/2002 3:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey Tom,
I have also wondered about Scripture being the ONLY source of revelation. I don't think anyone truly holds to sola scriptura in that sense. Maybe we should call it scriptura finalis (or however the Latin goes) to indicate that Scripture holds place of prominance--it is the FINAL authority.
I think it was said somewhere that "numerous" members abstained from voting. Could those be the missing voters you were asking about?
Also, are all ETS members "voting" members? I've been a student member for several years, but I still have yet to go to a conference. (I just get the journal and take advantage of publisher discounts  .) So I don't if I would qualify or not to cast a vote at these meetings. Does anyone here know?
Payaso 
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins
Edited by - payaso on 12/05/2002 8:25:31 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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hand_carved
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111
| Posted 12/6/2002 4:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Will the real evangelicals please step up? Please step up? Please step up?
hehe.
So are we going to make an RETS (Reformed Evangelical THeological Society)?
"I'm beside myself!" C-3PO, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/6/2002 5:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Payaso: I agree with your statement. Many of the beliefs we Christians profess are derived from the Bible but we believe them because they have been articulated throughout church history. My beliefs fall more in line with Wesley's. The Bible is the final authority but surely not the only authority.
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Steven Morrow
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 12/6/2002 8:56 AM (GMT -6) | | The Bible is the number one authoriy in my life. It is where I go to get wisdom, and peace. However, there are a number of passages that I just wish was not in there. Such as in 1 Samuel 6:19 when God struck down 70 men becasue they looked in the ark. Several more passages in the old testament make me uneasy. I want to say that I believe sola scripura, but when I look at the life of Jesus I tend to look over some of the old testament passages. I am only human, and I dont understand everything God does. The one thing I do know is that Jesus is BEAUTIFUL, and that God Loves us little humans with an intense love. Someone could infer from the Bible that God is two faced, and alot of people that I have talked to says that this is the reason they cant except God. The only thing I can tell them is Look at JESUS. Its almost as if I reject the passages in the old testament that portray a more rough view of God. This is something that truely bothers me, and I dont think I am alone in this area.
In Christ,
Steven Morrow
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/6/2002 11:18 AM (GMT -6) | | I hear what you are saying Steven, but I would add this: if we, as humans, are complex and sometimes different to understand in our actions and motives, why would we believe God, who is far greater, would be easier to figure out?
There is a great tension to the Old Testament. Sometimes God seems to do some pretty harsh stuff. But I find much more love in the Old Testament than I do the harsh stuff. And regardless of whether or not we feel God may go overboard, one should recognize that the judgments of the Old Testament come about through disobedience. The God of the Old Testament is as full of love as the New Testament because they are the same God.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/7/2002 4:19 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
The God of the Old Testament is as full of love as the New Testament because they are the same God.
Amen! | | Back to Top | | |
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gguskid
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 32
| Posted 12/10/2002 9:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Honorman, we need to get hooked up again on the “God Under Fire” thread. I got a copy of it and have made my way through the first couple of chapters. The reason for posting here is due to a piece of information I found out about a position Pinnock apparently holds to RE: Inspiration.
quote:
Previously this was my statement, “In my readings (unless you enlighten me otherwise) I have not come across it as an argument. I am just starting God Under Fire so perhaps there I might find something but as of yet it has never come across the radar screen. The ETS is grasping at straws!!
In fact as much as I’ve read of it so far this is offered, 'In contrast to process theism, open theists have a high view of Scripture' (Huffman and Johnson, God Under Fire. Grand Rapids Michigan: Zondervan, 2002: p25).”
There is some question as to how OVT’s see inspiration. Apparently there is the sense that OVT’s see God’s overriding control in the giving of the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit. It seems that those of classical theism are saying, at least of Pinnock, that he holds to a Mechanical/Dynamic and or Verbal inspiration of Scriptures as opposed to Plenary/Full inspiration.
I am probably out on a small limb here but what does that really have to do with inerrency? I would think that if one holds to a view of inspiration that allows for total control by God of the content of Scripture that they would have the highest regard for it being the final rule and authority in the life of the believer–hiself included. I should not presume to speak for Mr. Pinnock and nor do I but would find no dilemma if one held to a view of inspiration that allowed for God to exercise His sovereign control over the content of Scripture and inerrency.
It will be interesting to see what the year will bring. I sincerely hope that it brings open dialogue RE: this issue.
Until That Time…
Edited by - gguskid on 12/10/2002 2:25:51 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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