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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 11/18/2001 9:26 AM (GMT -6) |   | I'm compiling a list of anti-Calvinistic scriptures: pretty much anything that shows men resisting God, His will, or the Holy Spirit. Please take a look at these and discuss the strengths/weaknesses of the passages or add to the list.
Luke 7:30-
"But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John."
Isaiah 30:1-
"'Woe to the rebellious children,' declares the Lord, 'Who execute a plan, but not Mine, and make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, in order to add sin to sin'"
Matthew 7:21-
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father in heaven."
Matthew 23:37-
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."
Matthew 12:50-
"For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother."
Acts 7:51-
"You men who are stiff-necked adn uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy SPirit; you are doing just as your fathers did."
John 7:17-
"If any man is willing to do His will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself."
Numbers 15:30-
"But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that personshall be cut off from among his people."
1 John 2:17-
"And the world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God abides forever."
2 Peter 3:9-
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count sloness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
1 Timothy 2:3-4-
"This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1 Thessalonians 4:3-
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality."
Hosea 6:7-
"But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me."
Jeremiah 18:7-10-
"At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that natoin against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it."
Jeremiah 18:12-
"But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornnes of his evil heart.'"
Ezekiel 18:23-
"'Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,' declares the Lord God, 'rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?'"
Ezekiel 18:32-
"'For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,' declares the Lord God. 'Therefore, repent and live.'"
Ezekiel 33:11-
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"
Acts 10:34-
"And opening his mouth, Peter said: 'Imost certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right, is welcome to Him.'"
1 Timothy 4:10-
"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
1 John 2:2-
"and He Himself is the propitation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
Isaiah 63:10-
"But they rebelled and grived his Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned HImself to become their enemy, He fought against them."
Ephesians 4:30-
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
Hebrews 3:8-
"Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of triavl in the wilderness."
Hebrews 3:15-
"While it is said, 'Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked me."
Romans 10:21-
"But as for Israel, He says, 'All the day long I have stretched out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."
--Greg "Jewgrass" Burris, gburris.jewgrass@mail.utexas.edu
Edited by - jewgrass on 11/18/2001 2:28:43 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 11/19/2001 2:22 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for your work on this, Greg, I am not a strict determinist, I believe that free choice is possible for people who are in submission to God (but not for rebellious people).
But since this seems to have a broader scope as well (Calvinism), here are some thoughts in reply:
Luke 7:30 "But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John."
This may be read "counsel" rather than "plan" or "purpose", for their rebelliousness was actually fulfilling God's plan:
AC 13:27 The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath.
Isaiah 30:1 "Woe to the rebellious children," declares the Lord, "Who execute a plan, but not Mine, and make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, in order to add sin to sin"
This also may be read as "counsel" here. And people's plans apart from God are always thwarted, and God's plan always succeeds:
PS 33:10-11 The LORD foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.
Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."
But Jesus knew that his people would not accept him at his first coming:
DA 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
So Jesus sorrow was not disappointment or due to being thwarted, but because of the results he saw of their sin:
LK 23:28 Jesus turned and said to them, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children."
Acts 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did."
To resist the Holy Spirit still does not thwart God's plan, though, Stephen's summary of the Old Testament shows God fulfilling his plan throughout history, not at all frustrated or changing his plan:
AC 7:35 "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself."
John 7:17 "If any man is willing to do His will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself."
I'm not sure what aspect is in view here as far as man's will is concerned?
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
This and similar verses show God's desire, and other verses show that God will not be frustrated:
JOB 42:2 "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."
1 Thessalonians 4:3 "For this is the will of God, your sanctification."
ISA 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
This will happen, regardless!
Jeremiah 18:7-10 "At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it."
Here the plan is laid out, but it may be causing the effects, active, and not just passive rules:
HEB 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 3:8 "Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness."
And all God's commands are promises, the Israelites are told to "make yourselves a new heart" in chapter 18 of Ezekiel:
EZE 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit.
But then in chapter 36, God says he will do this for them:
EZE 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
So when God says "do not harden your hearts," this may be viewed as God acting to bring about his plan, not just a passive statement.
God bless you,
Lee
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"Even now we seem to have dim glimpses into regions
from which we receive no word to bring away" (George MacDonald) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/19/2001 3:49 PM (GMT -6) | | Dear Jewgrass...
I'd like to remark to you that as soon as you say "I'm compiling a list of anti-Calvinistic scriptures" you are doing something which I'd like to call to your attention. YOU ARE FOSTERING POLEMICISM! (Polysyllablisms run amuck, I know.) My point is that you should give Calvin a break. He's dad after all. how can he change to update? Be fair.  You are probably not arguing against Calvin. He is more varied than you probably know. (And don't rush into that...) You may not even know anyone who had been "Calvinist" for more than three generations! THEY are very much more nuanced and well-adjusted than you "presume." But, those "Neo-calvinsits". . .RUN!THEY are the ones who are polemical of their own accord.
Best wishes.
(o) | | Back to Top | | |
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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 11/19/2001 4:43 PM (GMT -6) | | PotOnWheel said: You are probably not arguing against Calvin.
Jewgrass: you are correct. I am personally wrestling with many issues: soteriology, foreknowledge, etc. I am currently doing a study with 4 determinists over Piper's PLEASURES OF GOD. I am seeking the truth through prayer and reading scripture. I didn't intend my last post to sound dogmatic. Lee Merrill has done a great job responding to the scriptures I posted. Any opposing views?
Thanks,
Greg Burris, gburris.jewgrass@mail.utexas.edu
"My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed." -- General Stonewall Jackson | | Back to Top | | |
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