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Winghead
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 5/14/2002 7:19 PM (GMT -6) |   | I thought I would ask a simple, and perhaps obvious, question. Why is ther an Open View? Why is it important? What is significant, if anything, about the OV?
On a side issue, I run into people who suggest that Greg is "pushing" the Open View, when it appears to me that it is just the opposite. Greg appears to have backed into this conflict. It was not Greg that made it an issue, but rather, people who opposed it. God of the Possible was written to clarify what Greg really believed, when people were misrepresenting him, and trying to get him fired from Bethel, and kicked out of the BGC. The book is largely censored by many Christian book distributers -- they sell it, but won't let anyone know it exists unless you look for it. And yet, to talk to some, you would think Greg is on a personal crusade, and the OV has absorbed his thinking, day and night. This is not the case.
I suggest that there must be a reason why so much interest and debate is being sparked by the OV. My personal belief is that the OV has been a catalyst for putting new life in the classic Arminian/Calvinist debate, but I do not think that, in itself, why there is an OV. Yet, the answer might be found in the Arminian/Calvinist debate.
The Arminian/Calvinist debate has been deadlocked for 300 years -- except I think the Calvinist think they have already won . I find it interesting that many try deliberately NOT to choose sides. They are "3.5 to 4 pointers". They are "Calminians", or try to "strike a balance". Been there, done that. Yet, I have often thought that what is needed is a major paradigm shift. We need to step back and look at the forest again -- to think beyond TULIP and it's counter points. Perhaps the OV is just enough of a paradigm shift to get people's interest?
The open view is also NOT a cynical response to a nihilistic society that does not like the idea of absolutes. In fact, there is something inside of us that tells us God must be trusted for the outcome of things. I do not think Open Theist are any different.
So, what say you?
Yours in Christ,
Winghead
"...you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Mark 12:30-31 (NLT)
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geebob
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 94
| Posted 6/3/2002 2:22 PM (GMT -6) | | I suppose that part of the reason that the ov exists has to do with the multitude of different reason that encouraged people not to remain satisfied with the present answers and seek something new, be these for biblical reasons or other consistency reasons.
What precipitated my movement towards the open view was my superficial reading of scriptures that suggested that God reprobates, that is he damns them before they even exist.
But this notion of reprobation is utterly inconsistent with with the notion that God is good reprobation is reprehensibly evil. There is absolutely no reason for God to create creatures that he knows that have no real viable possibility for escaping damnation. IF he is the creator, then in making these creatures, he has done an evil thing because nothing forces him to make these creatures this way. So let the ultimate guarantee for damnation rest upon our own heads, not Gods.
I realized that arminianism doesn't get us far away enough from reprobation. I just think that it's nonsense that we should be damned for things that we haven't even done before we are even born. Sure you can insist that it is stuff that we will do of our own free will, but the possibility for salvation does not exist and and I don't see how we can be reasonably damned for something that we cannot possibly not choose to do or not do. It still goes back to a God who did not make the possibility for salvation universally accessible.
So when I discovered open theism (along with corporate election and inclusivism) I readily accepted this answer which allowed me to continue to affirm the scriptures without having to accept this repugnant notion of reprobation, which I don't know if I would've ever accepted had a biblical answer not been found.
So that is why the open view exists for me as a viable alternative and why I contribute to the continuation of its existence (obviously it continues to exist because people continue to accept it.)
I will gladly pay you teusday for a hamburger today.
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Newcomb
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 116
| Posted 6/11/2002 7:26 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for the note Winghead. I may have a solution, we'll take him down here in San Diego (CABC). I could use a pastor that I can sit and chat with for a few months at a time. We tried (Seach Committee)before but he said "no" to the offer :(
If we could get him at the seminary (Bethel West) I'd go back to school.
:)
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Good points, Neuk'em.
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Doc and I agree on almost everything but are off on time by about two nanoseconds, but again, the OV is only true if it correctly reflects what the Word of God tells us about God and the universe and how he created it to operate.
I agree, the final test is the word of God. That said, it is nice when one agrees with their pastor on as many things as Doc and I do. 
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What I call the apologetic for the OV is just developing. ... Read the Word and see if it doesn't just fit like a glove.
I have and I am, and you are right, it fits well. One of the things I appreciate about Greg's exegetical method is that it is consistent. He does not waffle between literal and anthropormophic interpretations when the text appears to disagree with him. That "inconsistency" in the classical view bugs me.
Actually, I think I can present the case for the OV pretty well. As you can imagine, attending Woodland Hills allows you a lot of opportunities to explain what our pastor believes that gets so many people upset.  However, we can't agree with Him on everything or it'll go to his head. 
Your Brother in Christ,
Winghead
"...you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Mark 12:30-31 (NLT)
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Winghead
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 6/11/2002 6:03 PM (GMT -6) | | Neuk'emquote:
I may have a solution, we'll take him down here in San Diego (CABC). I could use a pastor that I can sit and chat with for a few months at a time. We tried (Seach Committee)before but he said "no" to the offer :(
Hey, we don't want to give him up! 
That said, I don't know ANY pastor you can "sit and chat with for a few months at a time". Interestingly, you probably get more opportunities to chat with Doc here than many people have to chat with their pastors in person. 
YBIC,
Christopher
"...you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Mark 12:30-31 (NLT)
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