 |
| 
Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 7/20/2002 8:04 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
No, really, Electra, wait until you have kids of your own. It all REALLY begins then. You will see.
For sure. Fooooor sure!
Tom 
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
 |
Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 7/21/2002 9:40 PM (GMT -6) | | OK, NOOOOOW I understand what VBS is about. Moore mentions it. OK.
I read the article. Thanks Terry for sending it to me.
Tom
"Every saint has a history and every sinner a future." Oscar Wilde | | Back to Top | | |
|
PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/22/2002 2:59 AM (GMT -6) | | | Hey, Tom. Don't hog the information. What is VBS? Explain. | | Back to Top | | |
|
Terry_Baxter
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187
| Posted 7/22/2002 3:33 AM (GMT -6) | | For (o)
The VBS battleground notion is based on a couple of things. First, theological revolutions are won or lost in congregations, not journals or academic conferences. Second, there are no parachurch organizations currently fighting the Open View in the way Focus on the Family fights against feminism in the church. Third, pastors (read: trained in Southern Baptist Seminary) must be vigilant to control the flow of information in their churches, and be aware that the Open View is just as dangerous as homosexual ordination or relaxing one's faith in biblical inerrancy (and those movements have the same origin in liberal thought).
Thus, Moore is saying something like Electra's caricature.
Again, I didn't post the article because it was accurate, but because it raises lots of interesting questions about OV as a movement. I find that topic fascinating, but I think this is either the wrong forum for a real-world discussion, or the people here are more interested in abstract topics regarding OV. Which, as I say, is cool.
I do worry that the dismissive attitude toward one's rhetorical opponents is unhealthy. Boyd says "I'm not worried about X because it's clearly not true." Electra's summary of the article is only slightly more accurate than the author's summary of the Open View.
Just for one historical parallel, after years of trying to counter pro-slavery arguments line for line, Frederick Douglass and other prominent abolitionists decided the best strategy was to ignore the silliness of their opponents and go on the offensive. He (Douglass) delivered a famous speech summarizing the things he would no longer argue, including that the slave is human and that slavery is endorsed by the Bible.
I don't think we're at that point yet. I beleive there is still room and need for dialog. I also believe there is a biblical way to argue that OV opponents are missing (but I also believe that doesn't excuse OV proponents from doing the same).
There. Cards on the table.
Terry
| | Back to Top | | |
|
Electra
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611
| Posted 7/22/2002 3:36 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Hey, Tom. Don't hog the information. What is VBS? Explain.
Hope you don’t mind if I answer? I’m a VBS veteran.  I went every summer until I was too old to be a student and then I was a teacher. Here’s the deal: VBS is a summer Bible School program for younger kids (usually preschool through junior high). It’s sort of like Bible camp, except you go home every evening. It’s usually hosted by a local church and the neighborhood is invited. It starts soon after summer vacation starts and lasts for a week. There is usually a big program at the end (like a play or something) that the parents come to. The kids bring offerings every day to support a missions trip (usually the highschool kids’ summer mission). Every class learns the gospel and is encouraged to ask Jesus into their hearts. There are memory verses, grames, singing, crafts, treats, puppets, and of course, flannelgraphs. And apparently, now kids get to learn about the finer points of exhaustive definite divine foreknowledge, and the evils of feminism and homosexuality. Boy did I miss out!
Peace,
Electra, VBS Veteran
~·• kyrie eleison ·~•~· christe eleison ·~•~· kyrie eleison •·~ | | Back to Top | | |
|
Electra
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611
| Posted 7/22/2002 3:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Terry Baxter: Electra's summary of the article is only slightly more accurate than the author's summary of the Open View.
Electra: Oops!  I wasn’t trying summarize the article!
Terry: Just for one historical parallel, after years of trying to counter pro-slavery arguments line for line, Frederick Douglass and other prominent abolitionists decided the best strategy was to ignore the silliness of their opponents and go on the offensive. He (Douglass) delivered a famous speech summarizing the things he would no longer argue, including that the slave is human and that slavery is endorsed by the Bible.
Electra: Sounds very interesting. Do you know where I could get a copy of that speech?
Terry Baxter: I don't think we're at that point yet. I beleive there is still room and need for dialog. I also believe there is a biblical way to argue that OV opponents are missing (but I also believe that doesn't excuse OV proponents from doing the same).
Electra: I don’t see how anything constructive can come from attempts to refute people who try to lump open theism with feminism and homosexuality. The pastors who do this are exploiting and feeding peoples’ fears, building walls rather than bridges. To entertain their accusations is demeaning. It puts people in the position of proving why they should not be associated with movements that some people consider so threatening. It is impossible to engage this kind of fear-mongering without participating in wall-building. Ignoring these people is about the most respectful response I can muster. Sorry to be so opinionated. I feel pretty strongly about this because for a while I did try to take their arguments seriously and it was pretty discouraging.
Electra
~·• kyrie eleison ·~•~· christe eleison ·~•~· kyrie eleison •·~ | | Back to Top | | |
|
Terry_Baxter
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187
| Posted 7/22/2002 5:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Electra: Do you know where I could get a copy of that speech?
Terry: I'll have to do a search through my dissertation to find it. I haven't been "in" Douglass' speeches for five years or so since I finished my degree.
I'm pretty sure it's on line, and if not I should be able to send you an electronic copy. I just need to look up the title and date to reference it.
Electra: Sorry to be so opinionated. I feel pretty strongly about this because for a while I did try to take their arguments seriously and it was pretty discouraging.
Terry: Sorry? A thousand times no! I'm very glad you shared this opinion. You also explained your reasons and that helps me to understand where you're coming from.
This board is pretty much a safe place for OV adherents and I'd never want to take that away by creating defensiveness. But out in "the mission field of ideas" I do think OV's defenders need to engage opponents where they're at, and I think I have good biblical and rhetorical reasons for thinking so.
If you, Electra, don't want to put energy in to such a defense, that's one thing. But if the public figures (e.g. Boyd, Pinnock) and anyone else who wants to move this 'revolution' forward give up 'taking their arguments seriously', I feel that can only mean bad things for the future of OV.
And yes, I agree it's demeaning. It takes a great deal of energy to 'bother' to respect people who argue like idiots. It is absolutely a case of 'turning the other cheek.' But there is a time for everything under the sun. A time for cheek turning and a time for saying "ENOUGH!!" and I don't think that time has come....yet.
Edited by - Terry_Baxter on 07/22/2002 10:52:06 AM | | Back to Top | | |
|
RidingTheRapids
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2002
Total Posts : 6
| Posted 7/22/2002 12:42 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
When I went to VBS, they used little flannelgraphs to teach kids Bible stories. Now it sounds like kids will be learning about God’s exhaustive divine definite foreknowledge of all future free actions, and how they better get this right or they’ll be like the feminists and homosexuals who are out to get their family
Haven't you heard Electra that the times they are a changin'?
Still RidingTheRapids
| | Back to Top | | |
| 33 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page : 1 2 |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 3:33 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|