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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 4:47 PM (GMT -6) |   |
TGB
05/29/01 2:27 AM
Now not elect, now elect!
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Hi all-
Rm. 11.7, 11
“7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened…(vv. 8-10 give Scriptural examples of this)….11 So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means!”
In v. 7 Paul recognizes that among the physical descendents of Abraham there exists an “elect” (those chosen by God) and “the rest” (i.e., those not elect) who were hardened by God. I’m assuming a Calvinistic view of things for the moment.
In v. 11, however, Paul asks whether or not “they” have stumbled beyond recovery? Who is this “they”? Obviously, these are “the rest” who were hardened in v. 7, where they are NOT elect. Paul asks in v. 11 whether or not THESE have stumbled irrevocably. His answer? “By no means!” Those who in v. 7 are “the rest,” hardened by God and not elect, may become elect. This “hardened unelected rest” are the “they” of Paul’s question in vv. 11, 12, and 15, the “dough” of v. 16, and the “some” branches which were broken off in v. 17f. In fact, v. 23 is addresses these same “hardened” Jews who in v. 7 are NOT elect, and declares that they may become elect.
I’m assuming for the time being that all of this suggests that individual membership in the “elect” is not fixed from all eternity, that one who has been hardened in unbelief and who is not elect may in fact become elect through responding to the gracious invitation of God.
I’d like to know how those of you who are Calvinists explain how it may be true that those identified by Paul in v. 7 as “the rest who were hardened” in contrast to “the elect” are in vv. 11ff said to be not irrevocably hardened or unelect.
Tom
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
writerdad
05/29/01 6:04 AM
RE: Now not elect, now elect!
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Tom: I believe this is a point Shank makes as well in Elect In The Son.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
GregBoyd
05/29/01 10:27 PM
Now not elect, now elect!
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Bingo TGB. Calvinists, we're still waiting.
Doc
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