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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 4:43 PM (GMT -6) |   | Message
Proverbs23_23
03/26/01 9:03 PM
loving the seemingly unlovable...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night I attended the debate between Greg and Dr.Robert Price (of the Jesus Seminar). I would have to say my heart was pierced and my character challenged. In the past I have been able to almost easily disassociate from events such as these and pray to see the person as God does: compassion was the outflow of those experiences.
Last night I couldn't get past the oppressive feeling in the room. I saw a vision of the audience being 'children' and the message of Price embodied in a 'perpetrator-type' being. His use/misuse of the Word of God was equally painful to me because there was not enough time scheduled to 'flesh it out' and give surrounding context. It was as a barrage of words; like he was biting and devouring the innocense of malleable people.
The questions I have for Dr. Price are: "What is edifying about your message?", and "What is the motive for your message?"
The questions I have for everyone here are: "Have you experienced similar feelings...where you just can't get past the 'agenda'?", and "When the topic is as personal as the Resurrection of Christ, how can anyone continually disassociate and control emotion when the context is not given, but the message is still going out?"
Greg~~you truly are SHINE!
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Mephi2K
03/26/01 2:10 PM
The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this is interesting stuff. To anyone who attended the Boyd/Price debate:
1) What were the highlights of the debate?
2) Which participant focused more centrally on the discussion matter?
3) Who made the better persuader for his position, and what arguments were used?
4) Basically, who WON the debate: Boyd or Price? (Be honest, now!)
Give me all the details you can muster, please. I'd love it.
Meph
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/26/01 9:06 PM
RE: The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mephi,
Thanks for ignoring my questions..
If you judge a debate on eye contact,(or even looking at the audience at all) persuasion, and clean cut facts...Greg won. If you judge it on anything else, I couldn't tell you who won...because in this debate the ultimate winner would be Jesus Christ, and the prize would be the heart of Dr. Price.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/26/01 10:46 PM
and the heartache
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Proverbs,
I know the feeling. The grieving of the Holy Spirit is discernable
and can be oppressive. However don't think that being upset by untruths, injustice, and what have you is a flaw in your character. There is righteous anger. We interceed, but we also do warfare prayer. Sometimes it's hard to lay our burdens down but we
are called to do that too.
Meph, As to who won the debate, that depends on the criteria used to make that judgement. If you are talking about delivery, clarity, and scholarship the Doc is hard to beat.
But if you are talking spiritually, there is no question that Christ had the victory. That debate was covered in prayer. In the midst of the denial of the power of God's Spirit, He moved. The Doc preached Christ, and him crucified, and resurrected, were he a fool speaking for Christ it would have been empowered.
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
03/26/01 11:00 PM
RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Proverbs, Memphi, and room:
I want to address both of you regarding the Boyd/Price debate. I too attended the debate last night. I guess I am under the assumption that when a topic is debated it is intended for the two opposing views to be presented in order to try to stimulate and challenge the audience to look objectively at both sides of the argument. I feel that this goal was indeed accomplished at this debate.
Proverbs, I can really appreciate how you feel about how Robert Price argued his case since you have so much reverence and love of Jesus and the written Word. I can appreciate how upsetting it felt to have someone try to minimize and negate the Resurrection of Jesus when this is such a significant part of our Christian faith. I do feel though that Price accomplished what he had set out to do which was to dispute the plausibility of Jesus having risen from the dead from his atheistic perspective. I agree with you that he didn't have much eye contact with the audience but perhaps that's how he copes with speaking in front of people when he is needing to concentrate? I honestly am amazed how they both were able to say everything so eloquently with the time restrictions had to abide by.
Greg Boyd has a charisma for talking to audiences so he was naturally a great presenter! I am personally biased on this topic so I can't honestly say who won. I brought along a friend of mine who professes to be an atheist and she seemed moved by Greg's presentation so this could perhaps be a indication that Greg won? He won for sure to the extent that he was able to arouse an interest in my friend to question further the area of Christianity.
The bottom line that I learned through this debate is that intellectual dialogue will never do justice to the character of who God is. God is love and this is the primary message that needs to be conveyed to the world. Intellectual reasoning can only go so far. My heart went out to the people who I talked with who profess to be atheist and see no future beyond the here and now
Prayer can do wonders though
trosie
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Mephi2K
03/26/01 11:50 PM
RE: RE: The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs asked:
"Have you experienced similar feelings...where you just can't get past the 'agenda'?"
Meph:
If you mean the anti-Christ agenda, I suppose I know what you mean. Yes, I've experienced those feelings, but you just gotta get over them. If not, you can defeat your ultimate purpose.
"When the topic is as personal as the Resurrection of Christ, how can anyone continually disassociate and control emotion when the context is not given, but the message is still going out?"
Meph:
I think that we have to keep our goals in mind. I do a lot of dialogue with agnostics and atheists who are OFTEN hostile. At least in a professsional debate by supposed scholars, one can expect some type of decorum...maybe. But even then, some of the attacks can be straight up belittling. If you don't get your skin tough really quick, and get your facts straight and HARD, then you can just forget trying to reach them intellectually. One has to be able to always be radiating the love and concern of Christ, and yet, be able to control themselves, using their God-given abilities to advance the cause of truth. Respect can be more easily earned from strong, passionate convictions, loving concern, AND good, substantial arguments than with just the first two alone, in many cases.
**************************************************
The reason that I was so interested in this debate is because I've followed Dr. Price's work. He is a regular contributor to "Internet Infidels", a freethinking site pretty much dedicated to the critique of religious and non-religious thought. (www.infidels.org) I've read some of his stuff...including his writing about his own spiritual journey. From my understanding, Price was somewhat of a hardcore fundy...who became evangelical...who ultimately became a humanistic atheist. Some of his stuff wasn't too out of the ordinary, and some of his reasoning concerning Christ not raising from the dead was not TOO bad either. Therefore, I figured this would be a good matchup.
When it comes to debates, rhetorical prowess is pretty important, to be sure. It's important to hone one's art of persuasion for debate. However, I personally prefer straight evidence and argumentation, in evaluating a debate. I guess that's why I asked what I did. I've seen debates where some opponents were poised in delivery and had charm to spare, but essentially dodged every main point to the debate...while others couldn't hold the attention of a high school homeroom class with their technique, but had STELLAR points dealing with the matter at hand. I notice that especially when it comes to matters of spirituality or religious faith, force of conviction or pathos can easily be mistaken for a cogent argument. (This is why some people who are more logically minded really DETEST some rhetoricians. I feel that's a little extreme, though.) From what I'm hearing, it was pretty good, so I'll figure I'll get some tapes and hear it for myself. I'm, of course, biased on this issue, but I have seen some debates where Christian apologists got themselves slightly clobbered. But Doc's got some skills, so I assume that he truly held his own, if not outright schooled Dr. Price.
Sorry that I didn't answer your immediate questions, Proverbs. No disrespect intended.
Blessings,
Meph
PS: I used to feel really ticked whenever someone stood against Christ like that. For real... But after reading a coupla books like Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian" and George Smith's "Atheism: A Case Against God", I think one kind of gets some immunity from it. Just a thought.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/27/01 1:59 AM
RE: RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trosie...
The guy that came with me (an unbeliever) was also moved by Greg's words. PTL! He asked me about the difference in eye contact, but you are right, we shouldn't assume. I didn't handle the whole thing very well.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/27/01 3:17 AM
RE: and the heartache ~~springs~~
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs, thanks for your reply.
Have you ever experienced a shift in ability to withstand attacks and/or to do warfare prayer? I experienced something like that. Warfare prayer usually comes easy to me, it is a part of my communion with God on a daily basis.....sometimes more sometimes less. I have also been in positions of counter-cult ministry/debate with skeptics and been able to remain succinct and unemotional.
I have been this way for about 7 years.
Discerning spirits, seeing visions, and receiving words of knowledge
are fairly new to me (past 3 years or so) but as they develop, and I see things I don't want to see, (as in the case last night) I am ALL OF A SUDDEN timid and fearful. What is up with that? It seems like I move away from experiences that are affirmed by God and confirmed by others...almost to the point of wanting to reject the gifting. Could it be because it is becomming SO REAL to me. If so, shouldn't there be more of a pull TOWARD the gifting instead of away?
Am I cracking up? lol YAY free counseling..
proverbs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
03/27/01 8:10 AM
RE: RE: RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs:
You made the statement: "I didn't handle the whole thing very well."
I am not sure what you are meaning by that statement but I don't see a problem with your questioning... Personally, I think you handled it wonderfully because it reflects your heartfelt love for our Savior!
I agree with you PTL
Blessings to you today!
trosie
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
GregBoyd
03/27/01 9:07 PM
A Bit Frustrated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what its worth, I came away from the debate slightly frustrated. Price's strategy is to barrage the audience with "facts" -- mostly pertaining to what he thinks are parallels to the early Christian truth claims (of Jesus rising, miracles, etc.). NONE of these stand up to close scrutiny, but who has time to give close scrutiny to them in a debate. Hence I did a general dismissal (using William Wallace as a counter example) and went on to my positive argument.
Yet, I was a bit frustrated (though not convinced that any other strategy would have worked better) because I wasn't sure my William Wallace strategy sufficed to diffuse Price's perpetual barrage of alleged legend parallels.
But, if I succeed in planting a small seed in the heads of those who are "in the middle" -- not already convinced Christians or hopelessly convinced non=Christians -- than I succeeded. THAT is my only goal in participating in these "debates."
For what it's worth
Doc
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/27/01 11:22 PM
moving toward
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs,
I guess we really all do have a desire to draw nearer to God, men the world over seek him out. So how come does it so often seem we are running the other way? Cause we are. It's like the Israelites telling Moses, "you go up the mountain and talk to God, he scares us."
Or like when the fire and the cloud guided them through the dessert. They set up camp when and it stopped and moved when it moved. No matter what time of day. sheeesh I bet that could be inconvenient.
We all would say we want to hear from God or move when he tells us to, but in our daily experience that can at times be a struggle.
press in
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/27/01 11:37 PM
shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo Prov
I forgot to respond to your initial question about feeling shifts in spiritual warfare. I'm not sure specifically (tnt) what you are asking so I'll so just shoot from the hip. I think there are phases or times when spiritual warfare is more intense. Kinda like the front line moving back and forth in a battle. Sometimes you are fighting with a regiment and sometimes you get seperated behind enemy lines.
I know there are times when I am totally equipped to join the fray, other times I may as well stay back for all the strength I have to muster, (or lack thereof, as it were). There are special missions and quick forays but no matter what's going on it depends on a lot of variables as to whether you are in the sick bay or being totally annointed and shooting lightning bolts from your palms. ha
I better quit before I'm delcared f4.
If we get too charismatic will scare the theologians away?
sailing the shifts
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
churchmouse522
03/27/01 11:51 PM
RE: shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs,
You said, "If we get too charismatic will scare the theologians away?" Hah! That's a good one: it's usually the theologians scaring everyone else away.
Knock 'em dead,
Churchmouse
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/28/01 12:08 AM
Hey!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo Mouse!!!!
Great to have you back!!!!
Truth be told I was out kickin' demon butt this very night.
yee ha!!!
the battle rages
the nebula beckon
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/28/01 1:20 AM
RE: shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs, you shoot pretty good from the hip sista! I SEE what you're saying. I held a 'manager' meeting today, handed out some new titles, and am confident that 'acceptance' (of variables) will be perfect in his new position.
God bless,
and thanks,
Proverbs
Message
Proverbs23_23
03/26/01 9:03 PM
loving the seemingly unlovable...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last night I attended the debate between Greg and Dr.Robert Price (of the Jesus Seminar). I would have to say my heart was pierced and my character challenged. In the past I have been able to almost easily disassociate from events such as these and pray to see the person as God does: compassion was the outflow of those experiences.
Last night I couldn't get past the oppressive feeling in the room. I saw a vision of the audience being 'children' and the message of Price embodied in a 'perpetrator-type' being. His use/misuse of the Word of God was equally painful to me because there was not enough time scheduled to 'flesh it out' and give surrounding context. It was as a barrage of words; like he was biting and devouring the innocense of malleable people.
The questions I have for Dr. Price are: "What is edifying about your message?", and "What is the motive for your message?"
The questions I have for everyone here are: "Have you experienced similar feelings...where you just can't get past the 'agenda'?", and "When the topic is as personal as the Resurrection of Christ, how can anyone continually disassociate and control emotion when the context is not given, but the message is still going out?"
Greg~~you truly are SHINE!
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Mephi2K
03/26/01 2:10 PM
The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, this is interesting stuff. To anyone who attended the Boyd/Price debate:
1) What were the highlights of the debate?
2) Which participant focused more centrally on the discussion matter?
3) Who made the better persuader for his position, and what arguments were used?
4) Basically, who WON the debate: Boyd or Price? (Be honest, now!)
Give me all the details you can muster, please. I'd love it.
Meph
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/26/01 9:06 PM
RE: The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mephi,
Thanks for ignoring my questions..
If you judge a debate on eye contact,(or even looking at the audience at all) persuasion, and clean cut facts...Greg won. If you judge it on anything else, I couldn't tell you who won...because in this debate the ultimate winner would be Jesus Christ, and the prize would be the heart of Dr. Price.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/26/01 10:46 PM
and the heartache
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Proverbs,
I know the feeling. The grieving of the Holy Spirit is discernable
and can be oppressive. However don't think that being upset by untruths, injustice, and what have you is a flaw in your character. There is righteous anger. We interceed, but we also do warfare prayer. Sometimes it's hard to lay our burdens down but we
are called to do that too.
Meph, As to who won the debate, that depends on the criteria used to make that judgement. If you are talking about delivery, clarity, and scholarship the Doc is hard to beat.
But if you are talking spiritually, there is no question that Christ had the victory. That debate was covered in prayer. In the midst of the denial of the power of God's Spirit, He moved. The Doc preached Christ, and him crucified, and resurrected, were he a fool speaking for Christ it would have been empowered.
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
03/26/01 11:00 PM
RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Proverbs, Memphi, and room:
I want to address both of you regarding the Boyd/Price debate. I too attended the debate last night. I guess I am under the assumption that when a topic is debated it is intended for the two opposing views to be presented in order to try to stimulate and challenge the audience to look objectively at both sides of the argument. I feel that this goal was indeed accomplished at this debate.
Proverbs, I can really appreciate how you feel about how Robert Price argued his case since you have so much reverence and love of Jesus and the written Word. I can appreciate how upsetting it felt to have someone try to minimize and negate the Resurrection of Jesus when this is such a significant part of our Christian faith. I do feel though that Price accomplished what he had set out to do which was to dispute the plausibility of Jesus having risen from the dead from his atheistic perspective. I agree with you that he didn't have much eye contact with the audience but perhaps that's how he copes with speaking in front of people when he is needing to concentrate? I honestly am amazed how they both were able to say everything so eloquently with the time restrictions had to abide by.
Greg Boyd has a charisma for talking to audiences so he was naturally a great presenter! I am personally biased on this topic so I can't honestly say who won. I brought along a friend of mine who professes to be an atheist and she seemed moved by Greg's presentation so this could perhaps be a indication that Greg won? He won for sure to the extent that he was able to arouse an interest in my friend to question further the area of Christianity.
The bottom line that I learned through this debate is that intellectual dialogue will never do justice to the character of who God is. God is love and this is the primary message that needs to be conveyed to the world. Intellectual reasoning can only go so far. My heart went out to the people who I talked with who profess to be atheist and see no future beyond the here and now
Prayer can do wonders though
trosie
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Mephi2K
03/26/01 11:50 PM
RE: RE: The Big Debate!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs asked:
"Have you experienced similar feelings...where you just can't get past the 'agenda'?"
Meph:
If you mean the anti-Christ agenda, I suppose I know what you mean. Yes, I've experienced those feelings, but you just gotta get over them. If not, you can defeat your ultimate purpose.
"When the topic is as personal as the Resurrection of Christ, how can anyone continually disassociate and control emotion when the context is not given, but the message is still going out?"
Meph:
I think that we have to keep our goals in mind. I do a lot of dialogue with agnostics and atheists who are OFTEN hostile. At least in a professsional debate by supposed scholars, one can expect some type of decorum...maybe. But even then, some of the attacks can be straight up belittling. If you don't get your skin tough really quick, and get your facts straight and HARD, then you can just forget trying to reach them intellectually. One has to be able to always be radiating the love and concern of Christ, and yet, be able to control themselves, using their God-given abilities to advance the cause of truth. Respect can be more easily earned from strong, passionate convictions, loving concern, AND good, substantial arguments than with just the first two alone, in many cases.
**************************************************
The reason that I was so interested in this debate is because I've followed Dr. Price's work. He is a regular contributor to "Internet Infidels", a freethinking site pretty much dedicated to the critique of religious and non-religious thought. (www.infidels.org) I've read some of his stuff...including his writing about his own spiritual journey. From my understanding, Price was somewhat of a hardcore fundy...who became evangelical...who ultimately became a humanistic atheist. Some of his stuff wasn't too out of the ordinary, and some of his reasoning concerning Christ not raising from the dead was not TOO bad either. Therefore, I figured this would be a good matchup.
When it comes to debates, rhetorical prowess is pretty important, to be sure. It's important to hone one's art of persuasion for debate. However, I personally prefer straight evidence and argumentation, in evaluating a debate. I guess that's why I asked what I did. I've seen debates where some opponents were poised in delivery and had charm to spare, but essentially dodged every main point to the debate...while others couldn't hold the attention of a high school homeroom class with their technique, but had STELLAR points dealing with the matter at hand. I notice that especially when it comes to matters of spirituality or religious faith, force of conviction or pathos can easily be mistaken for a cogent argument. (This is why some people who are more logically minded really DETEST some rhetoricians. I feel that's a little extreme, though.) From what I'm hearing, it was pretty good, so I'll figure I'll get some tapes and hear it for myself. I'm, of course, biased on this issue, but I have seen some debates where Christian apologists got themselves slightly clobbered. But Doc's got some skills, so I assume that he truly held his own, if not outright schooled Dr. Price.
Sorry that I didn't answer your immediate questions, Proverbs. No disrespect intended.
Blessings,
Meph
PS: I used to feel really ticked whenever someone stood against Christ like that. For real... But after reading a coupla books like Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian" and George Smith's "Atheism: A Case Against God", I think one kind of gets some immunity from it. Just a thought.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/27/01 1:59 AM
RE: RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trosie...
The guy that came with me (an unbeliever) was also moved by Greg's words. PTL! He asked me about the difference in eye contact, but you are right, we shouldn't assume. I didn't handle the whole thing very well.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/27/01 3:17 AM
RE: and the heartache ~~springs~~
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs, thanks for your reply.
Have you ever experienced a shift in ability to withstand attacks and/or to do warfare prayer? I experienced something like that. Warfare prayer usually comes easy to me, it is a part of my communion with God on a daily basis.....sometimes more sometimes less. I have also been in positions of counter-cult ministry/debate with skeptics and been able to remain succinct and unemotional.
I have been this way for about 7 years.
Discerning spirits, seeing visions, and receiving words of knowledge
are fairly new to me (past 3 years or so) but as they develop, and I see things I don't want to see, (as in the case last night) I am ALL OF A SUDDEN timid and fearful. What is up with that? It seems like I move away from experiences that are affirmed by God and confirmed by others...almost to the point of wanting to reject the gifting. Could it be because it is becomming SO REAL to me. If so, shouldn't there be more of a pull TOWARD the gifting instead of away?
Am I cracking up? lol YAY free counseling..
proverbs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
03/27/01 8:10 AM
RE: RE: RE: The Big Debate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs:
You made the statement: "I didn't handle the whole thing very well."
I am not sure what you are meaning by that statement but I don't see a problem with your questioning... Personally, I think you handled it wonderfully because it reflects your heartfelt love for our Savior!
I agree with you PTL
Blessings to you today!
trosie
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
GregBoyd
03/27/01 9:07 PM
A Bit Frustrated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what its worth, I came away from the debate slightly frustrated. Price's strategy is to barrage the audience with "facts" -- mostly pertaining to what he thinks are parallels to the early Christian truth claims (of Jesus rising, miracles, etc.). NONE of these stand up to close scrutiny, but who has time to give close scrutiny to them in a debate. Hence I did a general dismissal (using William Wallace as a counter example) and went on to my positive argument.
Yet, I was a bit frustrated (though not convinced that any other strategy would have worked better) because I wasn't sure my William Wallace strategy sufficed to diffuse Price's perpetual barrage of alleged legend parallels.
But, if I succeed in planting a small seed in the heads of those who are "in the middle" -- not already convinced Christians or hopelessly convinced non=Christians -- than I succeeded. THAT is my only goal in participating in these "debates."
For what it's worth
Doc
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/27/01 11:22 PM
moving toward
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs,
I guess we really all do have a desire to draw nearer to God, men the world over seek him out. So how come does it so often seem we are running the other way? Cause we are. It's like the Israelites telling Moses, "you go up the mountain and talk to God, he scares us."
Or like when the fire and the cloud guided them through the dessert. They set up camp when and it stopped and moved when it moved. No matter what time of day. sheeesh I bet that could be inconvenient.
We all would say we want to hear from God or move when he tells us to, but in our daily experience that can at times be a struggle.
press in
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/27/01 11:37 PM
shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo Prov
I forgot to respond to your initial question about feeling shifts in spiritual warfare. I'm not sure specifically (tnt) what you are asking so I'll so just shoot from the hip. I think there are phases or times when spiritual warfare is more intense. Kinda like the front line moving back and forth in a battle. Sometimes you are fighting with a regiment and sometimes you get seperated behind enemy lines.
I know there are times when I am totally equipped to join the fray, other times I may as well stay back for all the strength I have to muster, (or lack thereof, as it were). There are special missions and quick forays but no matter what's going on it depends on a lot of variables as to whether you are in the sick bay or being totally annointed and shooting lightning bolts from your palms. ha
I better quit before I'm delcared f4.
If we get too charismatic will scare the theologians away?
sailing the shifts
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
churchmouse522
03/27/01 11:51 PM
RE: shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs,
You said, "If we get too charismatic will scare the theologians away?" Hah! That's a good one: it's usually the theologians scaring everyone else away.
Knock 'em dead,
Churchmouse
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
springs
(Forum Moderator)
03/28/01 12:08 AM
Hey!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo Mouse!!!!
Great to have you back!!!!
Truth be told I was out kickin' demon butt this very night.
yee ha!!!
the battle rages
the nebula beckon
springs
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Proverbs23_23
03/28/01 1:20 AM
RE: shifts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springs, you shoot pretty good from the hip sista! I SEE what you're saying. I held a 'manager' meeting today, handed out some new titles, and am confident that 'acceptance' (of variables) will be perfect in his new position.
God bless,
and thanks,
Proverbs
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