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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 9/14/2003 2:03 PM (GMT -6) |   | I think it helpful to distinguish between
(a) choices we can actually make in a given moment
(b) choices we can make in a whole "life trajectory" (which largely determine (a)).
If , for example, a person has chosen unforgiveness over forgiveness over the course of their life, it may be that in a given moment (e.g. their dad is killed by a drunk driver) they CANNOT AT THAT MOMENT choose their attitude. It will be bitter.
BUT, they are still morally responsible for their decision to be bitter, for they COULD HAVE CULTIVATED A DIFFERENT KIND OF CHARACTER that could have, a perhaps would have, chosen to forgive.
We think about free will too much in category (a). I believe that free will needs to be more understood in terms of a "life trajectory" (b). Each decision we make turns the ship a little bit. Over a LONG HAUL the direction of the ship is set. Each PARTICULAR decision we make is meaningful primary because it affects the OVER ALL direction of our life.
We are magnificently free as to WHAT KIND OF PERSON we become. However, in any given instance, at any particular moment, the real possibilities available to us -- given our preset character -- are minimal.
Greg
"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10. | | Back to Top | | |
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borg
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 324
| Posted 9/14/2003 4:18 PM (GMT -6) | | Boyd, I guess I would ask about the people who have had complete turn arounds. Heck, how could anyone turn around if every decision in some way steers the boat in another direction. if we sin from the minute we're born even by the time we're 5 we're so far away from God, how could one decision flip them around? Now maybe you'll say it was a series of choices they made over time that brought them back in the other direction. But what of Jonah? Peter? Paul? I know you address this in one of your books, forgive me for at the moment your answer slips me. If you could refresh my memory I would greatly appreciate it. To me it would seem, especially in Paul, that he was turned about as far as any human could be, and yet in a matter of minutes he's down screaming in need of a savior. I appreciate the help.
grace and peace,
borg
rom 15:7
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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Iconoclast
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1227
| Posted 9/15/2003 5:21 PM (GMT -6) | | Doc
I think it helpful to distinguish between
(a) choices we can actually make in a given moment
(b) choices we can make in a whole "life trajectory" (which largely determine (a)).
If , for example, a person has chosen unforgiveness over forgiveness over the course of their life, it may be that in a given moment (e.g. their dad is killed by a drunk driver) they CANNOT AT THAT MOMENT choose their attitude. It will be bitter.
Iconoclast
Good point Doc. Can we conceptualize this phenomenon as a growing habit or increasing disposition? That the more we make choice A the more we experience a strong "urge" to make choice A? Or rather, perhaps, even a lack of awareness of another choice?
borg
I guess I would ask about the people who have had complete turn arounds. Heck, how could anyone turn around if every decision in some way steers the boat in another direction. if we sin from the minute we're born even by the time we're 5 we're so far away from God, how could one decision flip them around? Now maybe you'll say it was a series of choices they made over time that brought them back in the other direction.
Iconoclast
Good point borg. Can we conceptualize this phenomenon as suddenly becoming aware that we have been making choice A, that choice A is not what we really want ("hitting bottom") and that we are really "response-able" for choice A and thus we can make choice B?
It seems to me that this could fit with the notion of the "unforgivable sin" - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That when we see pure good (the Holy Spirit in action) and to us it is evil then there is no ability to be aware of what good is anymore and thus we have no ability to "hit bottom". We no longer have the ability to realize that we are responsible for the evil that is happening. And thus we no longer have the response-ability to choose differently.
thanks,
Iconoclast
"The benefit overran the merit the first day, and has overrun the merit ever since. The merit itself, so-called, I reckon part of the receiving." - Ralph Waldo Emerson | | Back to Top | | |
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