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borg
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 324
| Posted 8/7/2004 4:06 PM (GMT -6) |   | "To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." --John Owen
"If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." --C.H. Spurgeon
"We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved."-- C.H. Spurgeon
"Oh!" saith the Arminian, "men may be saved if they will." We reply, "My dear sir, we all believe that; but it is just the "if they will" that is the difficulty. We assert that no man will come to Christ unless he be drawn; nay, we do not assert it, but Christ himself declares it--"Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life;' and as long as that "ye will not come' stands on record in Holy Scripture, we shall not be brought to believe in any doctrine of the freedom of the human will." It is strange how people, when talking about free-will, talk of things which they do not at all understand. "Now," says one, "I believe men can be saved if they will." My dear sir, that is not the question at all. The question is, are men ever found naturally willing to submit to the humbling terms of the gospel of Christ? We declare, upon Scriptural authority, that the human will is so desperately set on mischief, so depraved, and so inclined to everything that is evil, and so disinclined to everything that is good, that without the powerful. supernatural, irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit, no human will ever be constrained towards Christ. You reply, that men sometimes are willing, without the help of the Holy Spirit. I answer--Did you ever meet with any person who was?... "
- C.H. Spurgeon
Well can I remember the manner in which I learned the doctrines of grace in a single instant. ... I can recall the very day and hour when first I received those truths in my own soul when they were, as John Bunyan says, burnt into my heart as with a hot iron, and I can recollect how I felt that I had grown on a sudden from a babe into a man that had made progress in Scriptural knowledge, through having found, once for all, the clue to the truth of God. --C.H. Spurgeon
""To the extent that we forget that our status before God is due to what Christ has done for us, we will try to make out own relationship with God depend on winning His approval."
Ranald Macaulay & Jerram Barrs, Being Human p 73
"We are creatures of time, and often fail to take into consideration the fact that God is not limited as we are. That which appears to us as past, present, and future, is all present to His mind"
- LORAINE BOETTNER
"[If Jesus died for all men]...why then, are not all freed from the punishment of all their sins? You will say, "Because of their unbelief; they will not believe." But his unbelief, it is sin, or not? If not, why should they be punished for it? If it be, then Christ underwent the punishment due to it. If so, then why must than hinder them more than their other sins for which he died from partaking of the fruit of his death? If he did not, then he did not die for all their sins." John Owen
"As the prejudices that are in the heart, against the truth of divine things, are hereby removed [by God]; so that the mind becomes susceptive of the due force of rational arguments for their truth. The mind of man is naturally full of prejudices against the truth of divine things: it is full of enmity against the doctrines of the gospel; which is a disadvantage to those arguments that prove their truth, and causes them to lose their force upon the mind. But when a person has discovered to him the divine excellency of Christian doctrines [by God's grace], this destroys the enmity, removes those prejudices, and sanctifies the reason, and causes it to lie open to the force of arguments for their truth."
- Jonathan Edwards
and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on......
For Christ and His Glory,
Borg
"If you can not represent another man's views in a way that he would agree with, then you have no right to disagree with him."
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/7/2004 5:06 PM (GMT -6) | | Amazing indeed. Calvinists who believe in Calvinism. Overwhelming.
quote:
Originally posted by borg
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." --John Owen
Oh to be understood. Who claims we possess "of ourselves" the power to do what God requires? No Arminian I know. We are designed for dependence upon God, designed by God to need him and his grace. Designed to be unable and incomplete without God. What's claimed is not that we have no need of grace to obey. What's claimed is that we are free to refuse grace.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 8/8/2004 7:23 PM (GMT -6) | | "Render love, let there be peace in the land, reconcil woman to man." The Choir...I like their words better, simple for a simple (and lowly man)...(and I bet they can sing better than Owens could... ).
Can anyone else think of some cool men that the world is unworthy of? Personally, I'm thinkin' of Ben and Jerry, because anyone who can make that good of ice cream has got to be in touch with someone a little closer to heaven then I am. | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 8/9/2004 1:08 AM (GMT -6) | | | I have both of Miss Angie's albums, though the first is my big fave, because its more pop oriented...big Stave fan, huh? I like some of their stuff. | | Back to Top | | |
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Sisters of Cain
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 431
| Posted 8/9/2004 1:21 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." --John Owen
God doesn't require each of us to die on the cross for all mankind.
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Asher
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 477
| Posted 8/9/2004 7:05 PM (GMT -6) | | Miss Angie! 100 Million Eyeballs is like one of the coolest CDs ever!
My CD is getting old from use, and I've had a hard time finding it in that format. Did get a cheap cassette on Ebay though.
Stardusty, rock and roll!
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 8/13/2004 9:30 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
If God's call can be refused, then it can be revoked.
How does that follow? If I call someone and they don't come, I am still free to keep calling. Besides it's the inverse (maybe converse, I forget) of what you are trying to show. To use the verse as grounds for saying the call is undeniable, you would say, "If the call is irrevocable, then the call is undeniable". But to say this is to confuse the caller with the called.quote:
All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
But what happens before the Father gives someone to Christ? He did say "shall give me". It's not some decision from eternity past but plainly future tense. What if the Father places in Christ those who respond with faith? quote:
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Verse 28: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." Paul specifies who he's taking about: "to those who love God, to those who are called..."
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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