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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 6:21 PM (GMT -6) |   |
12/08/00 12:40 PM
literal or figurative ?
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In scripture there are a lot of things that can be taken Literaly or figurativly how can one know whether to take these passages literally or to figuratively? Is there any way o truly knowing and how big of an effect does this play in our witness? Thanks for the help. Michael
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Lion-Lamb
12/09/00 9:26 AM
RE: literal or figurative ?
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First, it is necessary to be sure what we mean when we use the terms literal and figurative. Then, once we have identified with clarity what these terms mean, with some clear illustrations, it is vital that we maintain consistency and not confuse the terms.
When we seek to distinguish literal from figurative, clearly, the word literal identifies descriptions that stand distinguished from descriptions that are figurative. For example, here would be a confusion of descriptions, even if humorous: The miscarriage of justice left the inmate so frustrated that she was literally climbing the walls of her cell. If we believe in literal interpretation (i.e., taking words in accordance with, conforming to, or upholding the exact or primary meaning of a word or words), then the above statement must mean that the inmate was actually climbing the walls of the cell, for in that sentence the adverb literally means actually. However, the one who would speak or write such a sentence has clearly confused the use of language, for the writer or speaker surely does not mean what the sentence actually says.
This is where we need to begin, it seems to me. I’ll have to pick up the conversation later, for lack of time presently.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Newcomb
01/04/01 8:43 AM
RE: literal or figurative ?
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My old pastor, a little know obscure writer named Tim LaHaye used to say, "When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense."
It is common for people to take passages and "filter" them through their theological bent. "God repented of what he had done" becomes an anthropomorphism because they don't like the rational inferences. This is twisting the Word to fit our (Plato's) theology.
Figurative speach can be used when God isn't certain of how he will work something out (see Revelation), or of when he desires obfuscation (see Mk 4:11, the parables of Jesus) for whatever purpose. What might those be? In the OT there was a mystery. It was how salvation would be laid out (Eph 3:3-6)but I am uncertain what the options might have been other than how it actually worked out and the option of Isreal accepting Jesus as the Christ, which was a valid offer.
All in all I liked LaHaye's rule (he didn't originate it).
"Neuk'em"
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
beso
01/05/01 10:24 AM
RE: RE: literal or figurative ?
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I really don't like your psuedonym (Neuk'em), but I do like your point. What's the plain sense of God saying "I change my mind" (40 times in the OT)or "I regret" or "perhaps" (e.g. Ezek 12:2) or "I test TO KNOW what is in their heart"? All's Open Theists are saying is, "take these verses in their plain sense." (For a listing of such verses, see Boyd's section on Open Theism on this website).
Someone explain to me how a position can be judged unbiblical, or even "heretical," when it simply consists of obeying Scripture? Read Jeremiah 26 and tell me the point of the passage isn't to encourage us to think of God as one who is willing to change his mind!
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
12/08/00 12:40 PM
literal or figurative ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In scripture there are a lot of things that can be taken Literaly or figurativly how can one know whether to take these passages literally or to figuratively? Is there any way o truly knowing and how big of an effect does this play in our witness? Thanks for the help. Michael
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Lion-Lamb
12/09/00 9:26 AM
RE: literal or figurative ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, it is necessary to be sure what we mean when we use the terms literal and figurative. Then, once we have identified with clarity what these terms mean, with some clear illustrations, it is vital that we maintain consistency and not confuse the terms.
When we seek to distinguish literal from figurative, clearly, the word literal identifies descriptions that stand distinguished from descriptions that are figurative. For example, here would be a confusion of descriptions, even if humorous: The miscarriage of justice left the inmate so frustrated that she was literally climbing the walls of her cell. If we believe in literal interpretation (i.e., taking words in accordance with, conforming to, or upholding the exact or primary meaning of a word or words), then the above statement must mean that the inmate was actually climbing the walls of the cell, for in that sentence the adverb literally means actually. However, the one who would speak or write such a sentence has clearly confused the use of language, for the writer or speaker surely does not mean what the sentence actually says.
This is where we need to begin, it seems to me. I’ll have to pick up the conversation later, for lack of time presently.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Newcomb
01/04/01 8:43 AM
RE: literal or figurative ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My old pastor, a little know obscure writer named Tim LaHaye used to say, "When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense."
It is common for people to take passages and "filter" them through their theological bent. "God repented of what he had done" becomes an anthropomorphism because they don't like the rational inferences. This is twisting the Word to fit our (Plato's) theology.
Figurative speach can be used when God isn't certain of how he will work something out (see Revelation), or of when he desires obfuscation (see Mk 4:11, the parables of Jesus) for whatever purpose. What might those be? In the OT there was a mystery. It was how salvation would be laid out (Eph 3:3-6)but I am uncertain what the options might have been other than how it actually worked out and the option of Isreal accepting Jesus as the Christ, which was a valid offer.
All in all I liked LaHaye's rule (he didn't originate it).
"Neuk'em"
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
beso
01/05/01 10:24 AM
RE: RE: literal or figurative ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't like your psuedonym (Neuk'em), but I do like your point. What's the plain sense of God saying "I change my mind" (40 times in the OT)or "I regret" or "perhaps" (e.g. Ezek 12:2) or "I test TO KNOW what is in their heart"? All's Open Theists are saying is, "take these verses in their plain sense." (For a listing of such verses, see Boyd's section on Open Theism on this website).
Someone explain to me how a position can be judged unbiblical, or even "heretical," when it simply consists of obeying Scripture? Read Jeremiah 26 and tell me the point of the passage isn't to encourage us to think of God as one who is willing to change his mind!
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
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