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WormBowedB4TerribleGod
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 43
| Posted 8/20/2004 2:26 AM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
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lock
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701
| Posted 8/20/2004 6:14 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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lock
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701
| Posted 8/20/2004 8:16 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by WormBowedB4TerribleGod
quote:
Originally posted by lock
Those totally depraved men were inspired by God.
Ps. 39:5 (b) tells us that every man, even at his best, is vanity.
If God did not influence man, man would not have a chance.
The basis of my beliefs is what God has shown me in His scriptures about His salvation. I totally trust God and God alone. If you want to glorify man and his "free will" to choose God or not, fine, that is where God wants your beliefs at this time. All is in God's hands.
But why trust those TOTALLY depraved men and their writings with your TOTALLY depraved mind and not, say, the Buddhists or Muslims or atheists?
What is the basis for your string of pious non sequiturs?
"God has shown you in His scriptures" for example. How did God show you? Why do you think they are His scriptures? You TOTALLY can't trust your TOTALLY depraved mind for any of this.
1. You claim to be TOTALLY depraved.
2. You make a bunch of other claims about God.
Why should I believe either of these contradictory claims?
Worm-
You are not looking at the scriptures I have presented. No one seeks after God or His righteousness (Romans 3:12). Every man, even at his best is vanity (Ps. 39:5 (b)). The soulish man in not recieving the things of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them (1 Cor. 2:14). These are clear cut. Unless a man has been made a new creation in Christ, he will not seek after God. If you wish to call the bible pious non sequiturs, that is your choice  . I claim to be totally depraved in my flesh; thank God, I am a new creation in Christ and my life is hid together with Christ in God (Col. 3:3).
Do you take pride in that you have humbled yourself before God and chose to believe in Him?
Lock
His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/20/2004 8:43 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey Worm!
You will chase Lock around this cul-de-sac for a thousand years and not get him to admit that his views forbid his possession of any assurance whatsoever of his salvation (in spite of Scripture telling us we may have such assurance).
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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WormBowedB4TerribleGod
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 43
| Posted 8/20/2004 9:05 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 8/20/2004 9:11 AM (GMT -6) | | Worm: Either it's ULIP or TULI. 
Tom: Yeah, Ulip Tuli! Wasn't he the Russian gymnist who won gold two Olympics ago? Boy could he contort himself.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 8/20/2004 7:06 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi everyone,
quote:
WBB4TG: Why do you trust your TOTALLY depraved mind AND the words of these TOTALLY depraved people?
Because they had the Holy Spirit! All believers do. So believers are not totally depraved any more:
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
Ephesians 4:24 … and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
We can do right, because of our union with God, by his Spirit.
quote:
Sahid: The Bible is full of figures of speech. It's also full of stuff that I don't like. So, I've decided that the parts I don't like are just figures of speech. 1 Samuel talks about God not repenting; Exodus has God repenting. Which one is the figure of speech? The one that makes me right and you wrong.
This is an effort to understand all of Scripture, not an effort to be right in my opinion. One view is correct, that is true, but that doesn't mean that the choice is arbitrary, or that I must only choose what suits me, we can discuss what view is most reasonable.
quote:
Sahid: What about "God is love"? Is that one a figure of speech? How about "Christ died according to the scriptures"? What standard do we use that says some things are truth and others are white lies or informative lies?
Well, you just said that everyone has to decide whether "God does not repent" or "God repented" is the figure of speech. The standard is other Scripture, "God is hate" is not a verse, "Christ did not die" is not one either, we have no similar decision to make here.
quote:
Sahid: He even has the ability to change His mind. I'm not sure why people think that's such a bad thing. It doesn't mean God made a bad choice the first time. He made the right choice at the time.
Well, I shall revive my "time and chance" thread, that, for me, points out what is bad about God making the best choice at one moment, which might turn out not to be the best choice, the next moment.
Blessings,
Lee
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"Even now we seem to have dim glimpses into regions
from which we receive no word to bring away" (George MacDonald) | | Back to Top | | |
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 8/21/2004 1:01 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi WBB4TG,
quote:
Using the bible to prove that the bible is God's word is circular reasoning.
It's not invalid to consider Scriptures testimony about itself! In a similar situation, Jesus speaks of both principles:
John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
Which is what you are saying. Then later on, we have this exchange:
John 8:13-14 The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid." Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going."
I person's testimony about himself is accepted as evidence in court. But that must not be all the testimony there is, I think that is the way to put this together.
So we must examine Scripture, to see if its claim to be God's word is a valid one (lots of claims like this on the market!), and then if it is, we can trust what it says, even about itself.
And we do have good reason to trust Scripture, from fulfilled prophecy, for instance, from its consistent teaching, and from testing it ourselves. The proof being in the pudding...
John 7:17 If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Not that I'm saying you don't believe Scripture! Just trying to address the circular reason objection...
Blessings,
Lee
==================================================
"Even now we seem to have dim glimpses into regions
from which we receive no word to bring away" (George MacDonald) | | Back to Top | | |
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cbost6421
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 65
| Posted 9/1/2004 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Micah,
your heart is in the right place, but I think your premise is wrong...
in my opinion, the Calvinist God is not too big, but too little. HE can only do what He purposes to do. There is know learning, growing, responding, love, new decision making with The CAlvinist god. But again the God of the Bible, is different than some all controlling being who put himself in a box. He is a God who was big enough, "man-enough" if you will, to take on our sins on the cross.
That's Love, Relational... etc...
In my opinion, that's bigger than Calvinism.
-God Bless,
Chuck
stu.westga.edu/~cbost1/openviewtheism.html
"those who pray truly are theologians and those who are theologians pray truly"
-Evagrios The Solidary | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 9/1/2004 11:17 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
Hey Worm!
You will chase Lock around this cul-de-sac for a thousand years and not get him to admit that his views forbid his possession of any assurance whatsoever of his salvation (in spite of Scripture telling us we may have such assurance).
Tom
Look at Neal Plantinga's commentary on the Canons of Dort.
(Tom is way in foul territory.) | | Back to Top | | |
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lock
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701
| Posted 9/1/2004 11:26 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by cbost6421
Micah,
your heart is in the right place, but I think your premise is wrong...
in my opinion, the Calvinist God is not too big, but too little. HE can only do what He purposes to do. There is know learning, growing, responding, love, new decision making with The CAlvinist god. But again the God of the Bible, is different than some all controlling being who put himself in a box. He is a God who was big enough, "man-enough" if you will, to take on our sins on the cross.
That's Love, Relational... etc...
In my opinion, that's bigger than Calvinism.
-God Bless,
Chuck
Am I to understand from this post which represents the OT view that at the beginning of the bible God was younger, less mature, or maybe shorter then He is now? You put God in a box by saying He reacts to things and grows in knowledge like a man.
His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them. | | Back to Top | | |
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