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One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 8/31/2003 7:50 PM (GMT -6)

This thread means just what it says. Some people say that it's best to take a Christocentric approach to biblical interpretation. What I seem to recognize is that, many times, people end up seeing DIFFERENT JESUSES in the text! So, let's see what WE have here on this board.

Bottom line: If we are going to interpret all of Scripture by who God is in Jesus...we'd BEST get a more concrete idea of WHICH Jesus we are talking about.

Describe your personal Jesus. LAYER this thing with Scripture and your own ideas. PLEASE BE THOROUGH!

Doc, this should be easy for you. You did write "Seeing Jesus", right? Smile

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/31/2003 7:57 PM (GMT -6)

Ain't you in BED YET?

Well, I don't feel motivated to do the whole scripture thing right now. But I'll say this. Thoughout the NT the central thing that is hammered over and over is not about what Jesus taught, nor even the miracles he performed, but the fact that he demonstrated God's love BY DYING ON THE CROSS AND RISING FROM THE DEAD.

1John 3:16 We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us—and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.
Rom. 5:8 But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
Eph. 5:2 and live in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

God's attitude toward every person is defined by Calvary. Next to this, every other thing in the world is almost inconsequential.

Amen and Amen!

Doc

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 8/31/2003 7:59 PM (GMT -6)

Two natures. One person.

That's part of the point of this picture:

(Note that the artist chose to show each side of the face a little different; yet shows one face. *Cover one side at a time with a paper.*)

Same with this image:

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/31/2003 8:03 PM (GMT -6)

Well, I'll add one more thing. We are repeatedly told to follow Christ's example of self-sacrificial love and humility. e.g.
1Pet. 2:21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you should follow in his steps.

I'm especially impressed that he scandalously hung with tax collectors and prostitutes! And he never questioned the people he ministered to as to HOW they got in their predicaments. There was never a hint of blaming going on -- except that he routinely blamed demons and the devil for their afflictions and came against them in the power of the Father. He ministered to outcasts and the lame without judgment. And he (like the book of Job!) rejected any speculations that God was behind it (cf. Lk 13:1-5).

God is like THIS. And WE are called and empowered to be like this. If the Church ever was this, even to a limited degree for a short span of time, I believe we'd have prostitutes bang'n down our doors to just get around the love.

Doc

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 8/31/2003 8:43 PM (GMT -6)

The Genesis thing about "crush the serpant's head" (in that great hymn from 11th cent. Chartres.) The Woman's seed bringing salvation.

The New Eve saying "Yes" to the angel, and "Whatever he says, so" to the servants at the wedding.

God with us. Salvation with us. Zizioulas says that there is NO Christ without the Church. There is no Christ without salvation. No salvation without those being saved.

The Incarnation was never just about the great creator of the set taking a stroll across the stage in a cameo appearance. The incarnation is God becoming "born of woman." And making man born of God.

The Incarnate Christ is always about more than just the cave, and the cross, and the grave, and the air. Pentacost is "Christ's" Birthday too. It is all about the "enfleshment" of salvation.

Orthodox liturgies always have eight parts that cycle. From week to week the story unfolds in increasing intensity. Eight is the number of the eighth day--the beginning of the eschata. And in each of the eight weeks the liturgical hymn-verses tell the whole story--a story where no part stands by itself. The Cross and the Resurrection are at the end of story. And with the One who is complete the story is completed. But that is never the end. The story is pointless without the application of God's victory to our need. Right? Of course! And that is the point where the "Theotokos" (Bearer of God) is hymned. Christ is never considered independently of salvation. (Think about it.) And as hymn material, Mary is at both ends of the story -- saying "Yes." in letting God in, and "Just do it." in pointing the way towards faithful obedience. But nothing in those nineth hymns does not point singly to her Son, whom she bore in her womb and bears in her heart. And nothing in those hymns does not point to our own bearing of Christ in our hearts.

quote:
Luke 2:19 But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.

The "crush the serpant's head" bit DOES comes to mind. (From Genesis, and that hymn from 11th cent. Chartres, France.) The Promise that from Woman's seed would come salvation. And the presence of the New Eve as a sign that salvation had "come into the world."

The Gospel is not abstract, and not just an idea. It is incarnate. The Gospel is "God with us." That is all that the incarnate Christ is about.

Christ is not a cameo appearance. "The play's the thing." The cave, the cross, the grave, the resurrection, the sky, and Pentacost. God with us. God born of a woman.

honorman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137

Posted 8/31/2003 8:46 PM (GMT -6)

My view of Jesus is still under construction so I would have trouble describing him...

turner
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 13

Posted 9/1/2003 3:06 AM (GMT -6)

Yhis LINK is to the Serbian icon that doesn't always come up in the post above: www.kosovo.com/theotokos.jpg

turner
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 13

Posted 9/1/2003 3:11 AM (GMT -6)

Hmmm... interesting. My AOL account says that this Christian site is dangerous:

quote:
Sorry! You don't have permission to view this Web site.
Click here to e-mail your parent a request for permission.
Click here to get your parent's permission now.
Go to AOL Keyword: My Requests anytime you want to check out the status of your Web sites.

The link is from Kosovo, where dozens of Christian churches have been blown up by moslem soldiers in the last few years. Violent. Even Martyrs. I guess martyrdom "flags" AOL's safety controls.

So... Add DANGEROUS to your picture of Jesus!

Fleetwood
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 110

Posted 9/2/2003 2:53 PM (GMT -6)

Son of God, God Himself, risen from the dead, alpha and omega, sovereign, seated at the right hand in heaven, suffered for our sins, worthy of all praise!

fyodor
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179

Posted 9/3/2003 3:44 AM (GMT -6)

God. Man. Christ.

I tried to be more thorough but I felt like this summed it up. I'm wary of describing Jesus with all sorts of adjectives....

†††"One rarely finds an exposition of which it holds true that the exposition is that which is expounded." – S. Kierkegaard

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