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Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 10/15/2004 5:12 PM (GMT -6)

Lock,

In your "consider this" thread, you said:

"My son reaches the age of accountability; let's assume it is in the teenage years for this scenario."

As a universalist, what verses would you use to argue for an age of accountability? It would seem to me that if everyone is going to be saved, why wouldn't God just wait 'til the "reconciliation of all" to ressurect those who died in infancy unto eternal life. Why would they reign with Christ in His kingdom since they never believed or suffered with Him?

wjs

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 10/15/2004 6:02 PM (GMT -6)

Jeff-

I do not believe that there is an age of accountability. I only used in in my scenario because it is a part of "free will" and eternal torment/annihilation theology. I believe it is about one's disposition. The disposition of flesh is death, yet the disposition of spirit is life and peace (Rom. 8:6).

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 10/16/2004 7:12 AM (GMT -6)

Lock,

quote:
I do not believe that there is an age of accountability. I only used in in my scenario because it is a part of "free will" and eternal torment/annihilation theology.

I agree.

quote:
I believe it is about one's disposition. The disposition of flesh is death, yet the disposition of spirit is life and peace (Rom. 8:6).

In the womb, Jacob and Esau were said to have committed neither good nor evil. How do you explain that? Are the unborn never to be ressurected? Does the disposition of the flesh only begin at birth, but not in the womb?

wjs

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 10/16/2004 5:47 PM (GMT -6)

Jeff-

quote:
Does the disposition of the flesh only begin at birth, but not in the womb?

I personally believe life begins at conception.

quote:
Are the unborn never to be ressurected?

I believe that the unborn are resurrected. I hold to the belief that those who will live and reign with Christ during the eons of the eons are chosen by God. This choice is made solely by God and not based on anything a person does or choices, but according to God's purposes. An unborn baby can be one of God's elect.
When it comes to an unborn baby who is not chosen by God to live and reign with Christ during the eons of the eons, I am still seeking answers. In keeping with the "election" theology, an unchosen baby would be raised again to stand before the white throne and be judged by God. Due to their short lived existence and inability to interact with anyone outside the womb, I would expect the sentence (which could only be just coming from God) to be minimal, if anything at all being that, as in the case of Jacob and Esau, they had yet to do good or evil while yet in the womb. Then like the rest of the dead who are judged, this baby would be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, which is the second death. The baby will be in a state of unconscious death until made alive in Christ at the end of the eons along with the rest of humanity, so that God can be All in All (1 Cor. 15:28).
I do not feel that it is just random coincidence that we are discussing this. I recently read an essay laying out what I posted above concerning babies. Also, recently a friend of mine lost his infant son due to complications arising from premature birth at 18 weeks into his wife's pregnacy. They are Catholic. The Catholic tradition is that babies, who die before the age of accountability, become angels right away. I think that this was comforting for my friend and his wife. Just as I believe it comforts people to believe that their loves ones who have passed away befere them are looking down on them from heaven is comforting. Even though I do not believe that the dead currently are either "alive" in hell or looking down at us from heaven, I do not feel it is my place to tell my friend that I believe the angel tradition of the Catholics is unbiblical.
Even though I started to ramble on and on, I hope I was able to answer your questions.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 10/16/2004 6:00 PM (GMT -6)

Lock,

quote:
I hope I was able to answer your questions.

You did. It's a tough question even for those of us who don't believe in eternal torment. And I, like you, see no scriptural evidence for an age of accountability in terms of salvation (as though all persons below a certain age will automatically be saved), though the verse about Jacob and Esau seems to imply that there is an age of accountability for judgement of works.

wjs

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