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vangobel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 5

Posted 1/4/2005 10:29 PM (GMT -6)

Greg Boyd:

Hey I just saw this on John Piper's site.

http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2004/122904.html

As a disciple who has been influenced by wimber kingdom theology, making the jump to TWT has been a no-brainer:we pray fro the sick etc...all the time.

But would you be able to write a biblical TWT response to the above Piper letter.

Thanx for being real,

vangobel

Ray

God is good....and that's all right with me!

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 2:23 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by vangobel

Greg Boyd:

Hey I just saw this on John Piper's site.

http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2004/122904.html

As a disciple who has been influenced by wimber kingdom theology, making the jump to TWT has been a no-brainer:we pray fro the sick etc...all the time.

But would you be able to write a biblical TWT response to the above Piper letter.

Thanx for being real,

vangobel

Watch here for when his January 2 sermon comes online:

http://www.whchurch.org/content/page_173.htm

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 1/5/2005 2:47 AM (GMT -6)

Vangobel-

You should check out Piper's article in which he claims open theism encourages idolatry.

Tom

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 2:51 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by TGB

Vangobel-

You should check out Piper's article in which he claims open theism encourages idolatry.

Oh oh, we've been 'outed'....

We'd better take the Virginia Mayo pictures offline ASAP!!

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

vangobel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 5

Posted 1/5/2005 8:51 AM (GMT -6)

Tom:

I fail to see the connection of a loving sovereign God who came in the person of Jesus promoting idolatry.

Perhaps Piper is promoting heresy. CHeck out:

http://www.opentheism.info/

where there is a list of views (including Piper's) against the open view as well as a theodicy for the open view.

Now why doesn't Piper's page do the same and let scripture judge the truth.

Ray

God is good ....and that's all right with me!

Ray

God is good....and that's all right with me!

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 1/5/2005 9:24 AM (GMT -6)

Ray: Tom, I fail to see the connection of a loving sovereign God who came in the person of Jesus promoting idolatry.

Tom: So do I. I was just pointing out more of what Piper argues regarding the open view. Piper argues that believing we possess LFW, that the future is partly open, that God doesn't unconditionally determine all things, etc., is what encourages idolatry.

Tom

borg
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 324

Posted 1/6/2005 12:02 PM (GMT -6)

I think he, along with many other people in the Reformed camp, would argue that this is a lesser view of God. And because they claim they have a lesser view of God as He is revealed in Scripture, it can easily lead the way to idolatry. It's not that he is saying believing in a loving Jesus is heresy, it's that some perhaps attempt to mold Christ more into their image; and this brothers, we can all agree, is idolatry.

"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/7/2005 1:08 AM (GMT -6)

Ray,

The trouble is that many take this concept and believe that they have NO will and there is NO synergistic relationship within a converted person between their will and that of God. This leads to a defective view of God that encourages fatalism and this also is an "idol" of man's own making. Often God's will is accomplished THROUGH our will and not in spite of it.

Spen Lake

bryan mccarthy
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179

Posted 1/17/2005 11:00 AM (GMT -6)

I want to be very careful about this post becuz John is a Christian and I don't want to make him look bad at all. If I do, please nail me cuz God is really guiding me to refine myself in this area and sometimes I don't know what's okay to say and what's not in a forum like this.

With that in mind, I have question regarding this issue.

This comes from the statemtent being discussed:

2. Even if Satan caused the earthquake in the Indian Ocean the day after Christmas, he is not the decisive cause of 100,000+ deaths, God is.

My question: Even if this is true, isn't saying so right now lacking sensitivity? Truth has its time, doesn't it? I belive that sometimes things just happen, that's the way the techtonic plates and whatever work. It's probably not directly God or judgement, etc. But even if it's true, is it okay to say so right now? Will people not zero in on this statement and begin indicting God and also feeling like it's easy for us to say becuz we didn't just lose someone?

Bryan

Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635

Posted 1/29/2005 1:02 PM (GMT -6)

I am not so frighten of you now Tom, now that I have seen a picture of your favorite avatar, who is that celeb anyway, doesn’t look so familiar?

That dog though, better not bite that girl on the swing, looks dangerous!

Pudding is not good for your health . . .

Imagination projects unreal images out of the mind and seeks to attach reality to them. Faith creates nothing; it simply reckons upon that which is already there.

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