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revprodeji
Registered Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 17
 
   Posted 7/9/2005 8:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
this should be fun to play with. The Catholic Church does not have an official stance on Open theism, but there are heated theologians with different views. Personally, I have been told it is ok, but some sources do not fully understand Open theism. This is an example of a source that has honest opjections, but does not understand Open theism.
 
God knows all real things in the past, the present, and the future
(Scientia visionis). (De fide.)

On the teaching of the Church cf. D 1782. Holy Writ asserts the
universality of the Divine Knowledge in numerous passages. Ecclus 23,
29: "All things were known to the Lord before they were created so also
after they were perfected." God's providence which extends even to the
smallest detail presupposes an equally extensive knowledge. Cf. Ps.
146, 4: "Who telleth the number of the stars: and calleth them by
name." Ps. 49, 11: "I know all the fowls of the air." Job 28, 24 ;
Ecclus. 1, 2 et seq. ; Mt. 6, 26 et seq. ; 10, 29 et seq. Holy Writ
also ascribes knowledge of the heart to God. Acts 15, 8: "God who
knoweth the hearts." Ps. 7, 10: "The searcher of hearts and reins is
God." I Pa. 28, 9: "The Lord searcheth all hearts and understandeth all
thoughts." Cf. Ps. 68, 6 ; 138, 1-6. The knowledge of hearts is an
exclusive privilege of God. 3 Kins 8, 39: "Thou only knowest the heart
of all the children of men." For humanity, on the other hand, the human
heart is unsearchable (Jer. 17, 9). Cf. St. Clement of Rome, Cor. 2,1,
3. 9 ; 27, 6 ; 28, I. When God, in His self-comprehension beholds His
infinite operative power, He knows therein all which He, as the main
effective cause, actually comprehends, ie, all reality. The difference
between past, present and future does not exist fot he Divine
knowledge, since for God all is present.

By the knowledge of vision (scientia visionis) God also foresees the
future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty.
(De fide.)

The Vatican Council teaches: (skipping the Latin) "All things are naked
and open to his eyes, even those things that will happen through the
free actions of creatures." D 1784, cf. D 3017. Holy scripture attests
this truth in the clearest fashion in Ps. 138, 3 et seq.: "Thou has
understood my thoughts from afar off: my path and my line thou has
searched out."
John 6, 65: "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that did not
believe and who he was that would betray him." The Fathers preferred to
appeal to the prophecies. Tertullian, Adv. Marc. II 5: "What shall I
say about His foreknowing? This has as many witnesses as it has made
Prophets."
Prescience and freedom
The dogma of human freedom (D 815) is not abrogated by the dogma of the
infallible certainty of the Divine prevision of future free actions.
The Fathers point to the eternal character of the Divine knowing and
conclude that the Divine foreknowledge imposes as little compulsion on
future actions as human remembering does on the past. Cf. St. Aug. De
libero arbitrio III 4, 11: "As thou through thy remembrance dost not
oblige that which is past to have occurred, so God through His
prescience does not compel that which shall be in the future to
happen."
Speculative Theology makes a distinction between antecedent necessity
and consequent necessity. This latter follows the action, and therefore
does not involve freedom according to the principle of contradiction it
flows from the reality of an action since what really is cannot be
non-effective. The future free actions foreseen by God follow
infallibly or necessarily, not by antecedent but by consequent
necessity. St. Thomas uses the distinction between necessitas
consequentis and necessitas consequentiae in the same sense. The former
asserts than effect necessarily follows from its cause; the latter
expresses a logical necessity, such as exists, for example, between the
premisses and the conclusion of a syllogism. In our case, if God, in
His timeless knowing, sees something present, then according to the
principle of contradiction it is inevitable that it really happens. Cf
S. c. G. 167 : De verit 24, I ad 13.


Yes, Im a catholic open theist...

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revprodeji
Registered Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 17
 
   Posted 7/10/2005 4:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
c'mon...


Yes, Im a catholic open theist...

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Sahid
Megistered Rember




Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
 
   Posted 7/10/2005 8:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A lot of this assumes determinism. If they can support that assumption I'd probably agree. But the watchmaker god is not the God of the Bible. Lots of things are determined. Some are not.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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