 |
 |  Tom Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 10353 | Posted 10/18/2003 8:46 PM (GMT -6) |   | Hi Ross-
Hasker still defends the coherence of divine timelessness though he disagrees with it. Maybe it's to his credit that when he describes a view at its best and is arguing its intelligibility he makes you think it's his view, but it's not. I got that feeling reading his God and Time when he argue for the coherence of divine timelessness. But then he started to critic it. Boom. No doubt there. He doesn't embrace the view. Whether he ever did or not I don't know.
So, you can be an open theist and agree that the timeless view of God and God's knowledge is coherent (most views you disagree with are coherent and intelligible views), but I you can't embrace the view of timeless knowledge and remain an open theist. Is that what you're hoping to do?
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Tom Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 10353 | Posted 10/19/2003 8:15 PM (GMT -6) |   | A view or claim can be logically coherent but incorrect. If a view is logically incoherent, or unintelligible, then it's obviously not true (as far as I know!). But just because a claim posits a logically coherent, or logical state of affairs doesn't mean that state of affairs accords to reality. It could be wrong.
Yes? No?
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
  |  might-be-don Registered Member
 Date Joined Jun 2001 Total Posts : 830 | Posted 10/20/2003 1:44 AM (GMT -6) |   | A humble apology to the Calvinists...
It was my job to watch Doc from '82 to '85 , I failed in my task to keep him a devout Calvinist. In fact, looking at me may have convinced him that God really could change his mind.
peace , don | | Back to Top | | |
 |  geebob Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 94 | Posted 10/22/2003 2:25 PM (GMT -6) |   | The issue with Hasker is not that he rejects timeless foreknowledge but rather he rejects timelessness period. It isn't timeless foreknowledge that he criticizes but the notion that the biblical God is timeless.
He refers to a very influential essay by Nicolaus Wolterstorff entitled something like God Everlasting. ONe of the main claims here is that a timeless God cannot redeem and forgive. For God to forgive, he must have something against us at first and then change his attitude towards us in one of mercy. This is hopelessly temporal. Is the slaight really clean? Has God really forgotten our sins (even in a metaphorical sense)? If timelessness is true, then you can't say that God has really fully forgiven us but rather that God is eternally angry with our sins in what is our past and he is eternally not angry with us after our repentence and submission.
Here is some further thinking by Wolterstorff:
quote: from Wolterstorff on God, time, and the future from "God and time: Four Views".
What about the future? Are future events likewise components of facts and can we refer to them? Tense theorists divide on this point. My own view, which I won't defend here since it won't make any difference in what follows, is that only when an event is occuring or has occured can it be a component of facts and can it be referred to. There are lots of general facts about the future, but no facts having particular events as constituents. (pp 196-197)
This episode stands out as one of the great numinous episodes of the biblical narrative. But it's representation of God as having a history, which can be narrated is not exceptional but typical of Scripture's representation of God: God responds to what transpires in human affairs by performing a succession of actions, including actions of speaking. An implication of this representation of God is that there's change in God's life; if a person does one thing at one time and different thing at another time, then there's change in that person's life. Behind the change in action, there is, in turn, a change in knowledge: God's successive responses to Moses were motivated by God's knowledge, each time, of Moses' new protest; the changes in God's knowledge tracked the changes in Moses' protest. These, I say, are implications of how scripture represents God: God has a history, and in this history there are changes in God's actions, responses, and knowledge. These I say are implications of how scripture represents God: God has a history, and in this history there are changes in God's actions, responses, and knowledge. The God of scripture is One of whom a narrative can be told; we know that not because scripture tells us that but because it offers such a narrative. I hold that an implication of this is that God is in time. If something has a history, then perforce that being is in time.
(taken from God and Time: four views, pg 188)
As you can see, the rejection of timelessness is not on the basis of that with the incompatibility with free will as in other views of foreknowledge but rather it is for biblical reasons. And that is where Hasker is coming from. I will gladly pay you teusday for a hamburger today.
-Wimpy | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 11:44 AM (GMT -6) There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads. In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3 dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|