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Blood Washed Heretic
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Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167
 
   Posted 11/19/2003 5:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My mentor Dr. James Sennett is sharing a paper at the Society of Christian Philosophers entitled "How Libertarianism Entails Open Theism (And Why That's Okay)".

He's emailed the paper to me, but since he's out of the office for the week, I can't ask him for permission to post it here until the weekend. I hope his work will be well-received at the conference, but I'm more interested to see what kind of discussion it sparks here. I think I'll try to have him join the board as well, so he can interact with you all personally.

His premise is simple: Anyone with a non-Calvinist view of libertarian free will should have no trouble accepting the open view of the future (he argues very well in the first part of the paper that openness is NOT a challenge to the doctrine of God). In the second half, he proves (according to my rather limited knowledge of formal logic and such things) that non-Calvinist libertarians are ignoring what their stated position actually entails when they attack open theism.

Again, I hope to have the paper (and possibly the man himself) to present to all of you soon.


In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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rossfadeinout
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 428
 
   Posted 11/20/2003 3:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey there BWH,

It's a really small world. I saw the abstract for his paper on the thread that Alan started and thought that it looked really interesting. I e-mailed Dr. Sennett and he was kind enough to e-mail me a copy of his paper. He seems like a great guy (very friendly in his e-mail) and I found his paper very clear and informative. I sent him some comments I had on the paper, and was wondering if he was going to be able to get back to me, but I see from your post that he's out of the office for the week.

I think that it would be great o have Dr. Sennett join our discussion!

Ross


"Let us remember how common the folly is of going from one faulty extreme into the opposite." -Thomas Reid

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Blood Washed Heretic
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Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167
 
   Posted 11/20/2003 6:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cool. The Doc (I was calling him that before I "met" Herr Boyd) is a great guy, and a shining example of open theists making a positive impact despite the clouds of controversy that swirl from time to time. He's officiating my rapidly approaching wedding, and is assisting me in putting out feelers for the next step in my ministry journey.

Anyway, he is directly responsible for my OV tendencies, and if it wasn't for his disarmingly clear introduction and explanation of the doctrine, I wouldn't have begun readng Doc Boyd's work and ended up here. I hope you all get the chance to "meet" him soon, and I know he'll be fascinated by the work on conjoined might-might not counterfactuals especially.


In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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rossfadeinout
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 428
 
   Posted 11/20/2003 8:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BWH,

Out of curiosity, do you go to school where Dr. Sennett teaches? What degree are you working on? The reason that I'm asking is that I'm interested in going to do grad work in theology or Philosophy of Religion and am looking for some good schools.

Ross

PS congrats on the upcoming wedding!


"Let us remember how common the folly is of going from one faulty extreme into the opposite." -Thomas Reid

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Blood Washed Heretic
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Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167
 
   Posted 11/20/2003 10:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm currently on my internship to finish my B. A. in Preaching Ministry from Lincoln (Doc Sennett teaches mainly in the undergrad in the interdisciplinary studies program), but we have a seminary too. You can check it out at www.lccs.edu

I'm not sure if it's really what you're looking for though. LCS mainly prepares its students for located ministry rather than an academic career. The faculty are top-notch, but they would acknowledge the same thing. So, if you're thinking ministry, I heartily recommend it. However, if you're wanting a STRONG emphasis on scholarship, you might look elsewhere.


In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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rossfadeinout
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Date Joined Oct 2002
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   Posted 11/20/2003 11:04 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the info BWH.


"Let us remember how common the folly is of going from one faulty extreme into the opposite." -Thomas Reid

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Blood Washed Heretic
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Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167
 
   Posted 12/3/2003 10:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, I just returned from my honeymoon, and Doc Sennett did a wonderful job with the wedding. Hopefully, he'll be joining the board soon, and we'll just start a new thread with his paper.

Until then, any thoughts on Arminians who refuse to embrace OV? How many of the OVers in here came from an Arminian background (I did)? Anyone make the jump from Calvinism or compatibilism straight into OV?


In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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DLW
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   Posted 12/3/2003 10:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Congrats BWH!

I came from an arminian background, but had informally morphed into a calvinist/stoicist/fatalist for the purpose of its role as a psychic balmSheep. I formally became a calvinist after hearing Greg Boyd play the role of Augustine at Bethel's Christianity and Western Culture class in my first year as a college student. I then read LFS between my first and second year and then became an OVTheist when I had a Christian Theology course from Greg in the spring of my 2nd year. I then proceeded to participate/lead apologetics studies after having an apologetics course from Greg in the summer between my 2nd and 3rd year of college.

I came to morph my views into dealing with the problem of order more than the spiritual warfare theodicy, which I studied with Greg during my last semester as an undergraduate, while studying Economics in Grad-school. The problem of order approach emphasizing topical continuity between the Social Sciences and Theology, with the former displacing the latter for much of the population in the past century but subsuming much of its controversies.

I came to espouse a thorough-going fallibilism due to my understanding of the joint role scriptures and tradition/experience plays in us determining how we should let our lights shine in this world. This makes me believe that paying attention to ecclesiastical and secular decision-making arrangements are generally a more productive line of thinking than the spiritual warfare theodicy. The latter is too manicheistic and gets people too easily up in arms. Also if the spiritual/material dichotomy is imperfect and the two are connected, then we do not neglect the spiritual side of things when we deal with them in their materialistic manifestations. Sure we should take the double-barrel approaches, but most theologians in my experience have failed to pay adequate due to the fact-generating process and a theological education doesn't seem to prepare one well, in general, for the ambiguities of the policy-making process. I also would generally prefer more empirical comparative ecclesiastical institutional analysis, like when ecclesiastical governance structures emulate corporate governance structures how might one modify the decision-making so as to prevent the same follies associated with corporate governance from taking place and so on....

Sorry, too much info, I know, but that's where I am at.
dlw


Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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John Earp
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Total Posts : 1715
 
   Posted 12/5/2003 12:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi BWH,

I came to the OV from an Arminian background. It seems obvious to me that anyone who believes prayer changes things and that we are completely morally responsible before God, or as Paul said "without excuse"(aka libertarian free will), is a defacto Open Theist. To me the Open View is very similar to Arminianism, but with much smoother edges, so to speak.


P.S.: Congratulations on your recent marriage. May the Lord bless it abundantly.



"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

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rossfadeinout
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 428
 
   Posted 12/5/2003 2:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BWH,

Hope that the newlywed thing is going well for you. I'm not certain that I would classify myself as an Open Theist yet, but I'm definitely an Arminian. It seems pretty clear to me that moral accountability implies libertarian free will.

Here's how I see it. I've also had the privilege of reading Dr. Sennett's paper. I think that it does an excellent job of pointing out that Arminians have nothing to fear from OT. But it seems that you would not have to accept the force of his argument if you believed that the idea that God is outside of time is coherent (C S Lewis, etc.) Of course, I know that that is a big "if." (Reading Hasker's Metaphysics he seems to support the coherence of this view, while not believing in its reality)

Ross


"Let us remember how common the folly is of going from one faulty extreme into the opposite." -Thomas Reid

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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
 
   Posted 12/5/2003 4:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BWH, congrats on the wedding.

I went to the local Ferrari dealership and was surprised you hadn't registered! Man, if you wanted a gift.......





inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

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