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Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:11 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Still_unsure
06/03/01 2:59 PM
Hardened Heart
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Our Calvinist brethren often quote Paul in Romans 9 where he speaks of Pharaoh being used by God to demonstrate his power. Paul then speaks of God hardening whom he will, and showing mercy on whom he will.
Romans 9:17-18
"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."
But, upon returning to the story in Exodus we are told by Moses 3 times that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. My question is this- Did God force Pharoah to reject him or is this a story about someone whom God understood well enough to know that no demonstration of his power would break his stubborn(hardened) heart? If the latter is correct the this verse is misconstrued if it is used to support determinism. I think Dr. Boyd's concept of free will turning to compatibalist will is evident in these passages.
Rob
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Wislawa
06/04/01 12:29 PM
RE: Hardened Heart
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I’m writing without a Bible near me like the bad Christian that I am but there is a verse that specifically tells us why God hardened Pharaoh’s heart AND why he sent the plagues. I can’t remember the verse # or the exact words but to paraphrase it it said something like because God wanted His name to be feared in Egypt. I like Terence Freethem’s (sp?) take on it. He said that God had two missions in dealing with Pharaoh. First He wanted to free the Israelites, second He wanted to be worshiped by the Egyptians and beat up the Egyptian gods. So the second mission was a sort of Old Testament evangelism. God could have achieved the first mission much easier but each of the plagues were aimed specifically at an Egyptian god. If God had not had hardened Pharaoh’s heart Pharaoh might have given up and let the Israelites go earlier but then God’s second mission would have been forfeited. So God upped the stakes and lit a fire under Pharaoh’s butt. Before it was just a question of losing some slave labor, now it became a question of losing their gods. God’s first mission was a success but the second one was a failure. God will not force someone to follow Him but He will encourage them to follow Him.
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
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Questioning
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 37
| Posted 9/3/2001 4:12 AM (GMT -6) | | This is a section of scripture that I am also trying to understand. It seems to me that God is not going to force Himself on anyone. It is up to the indvidual to make the choice. I believe that this is what is happening with pharoah. The text reads that "...God hardened pharoah's heart". My take on this is that pharoah could have still chose to free the Israelites but God caused things to happen that would cause pharoah to harden his heart. It goes along with the post from the Open Theism Information site.
I am really interested in what other folk's views are regarding the "...hardening of pharoah's heart".
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