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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 10/19/2001 10:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | I was on Amazon reading reviews of Pinnock's new book, THE MOST MOVED MOVER and came across this comment: "...Pinnock was obviously in a great rush to complete this book in order to ensure publication before the much anticipated and pivotal, national Evangelical Theological Society meeting. This particular meeting of ETS could possibly be the point in history which marks either the beginning or the end of Open Theism in conservative evangelicalism."
This statement prompted me to look up more info on this meeting on the net. Info on this meeting can be found at http://www.etsjets.org/meetings/2001-schedule/annual-2001-schedule.html. It appears that there's going to be a number of speakers including Open Theist John Sanders, author of THE GOD WHO RISKS, and Bruce Ware, author of GOD'S LESSER GLORY.
What impact will this meeting have on Open View Theism? Will we see this theology spread or be deemed as heretical? What do yall think?
Thanks,
Greg Burris, gburris.jewgrass@mail.utexas.edu
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 10/20/2001 12:47 AM (GMT -6) | | A good question that I'd love to know the answer to. But since the future is open, both responses of the Society are possible, except, that is, if the intellect/character of openness opponents is so thoroughly solidified that they have become incapable of thinking objectively, in which case openness folk are bound to be labled heretics.
Tom
“Christianity is all for practice, and so much time as is spent in quarrels about it is a diminution to its interest. We inquire so much what it is that we have but little time left to be Christians.” Jeremy Taylor | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 10/20/2001 3:36 AM (GMT -6) | | Clearly, if the ETS kicks openness people out, it would hinder the openness movement somewhat, at least in conservative circles. But it wouldn't in any way be its end . The ETS is not widely respected outside of strongly conservative circles, mainly because it is ALREADY too narrow. (and now many of the leadership are seeking to become narrower still!) . Many evangelical scholars, especially of more moderate persuasions, do not align themselves with it.
So, I think the reviewer you read puts too much stock in the ETS.
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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Sean
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 10/20/2001 7:52 AM (GMT -6) | | I think it would be interesting to reflect on the impact it would have for colleges. There are several colleges and seminaries who will stand firmly by what the ETS says. What will be the impact for students who hold the open view at such schools? Just a question to think about.
Yours, in Christ,
Sean McNabb | | Back to Top | | |
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PaulEddy
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1
| Posted 10/20/2001 7:21 PM (GMT -6) | | From where I stand, I think Doc's perspective is largely right. In the mid-1980s, the ETS experienced what has come to be known as the (now infamous) "Gundry affair." (In brief, evangelical New Testament scholar Robert Gundry was removed from the ETS, primarily because he held that the Gospel infancy narratives were midrashic in nature.) With the removal of Gundry, there was something of a mass exodus out of the ETS by many more moderate evangelicals. Most have never returned. I think it is safe to say that if the Openness folk are now shown the door -- a sort of "Gundry Fiasco Part Two" -- once again a number of more moderate evangelicals will be obliged to go with them, simply on principle.
We could, perhaps, witness a significant splitting of the ETS. What would remain would probably be better characterized as the CCTS (The Conservative Calvinist Theological Society). In any case, that hasn't happened yet, and we can still hope and pray that it doesn't come to that. Perhaps we in the ETS have learned a bit in the last 20 years about how to dialogue and debate over significant theological matters together, while still recognizing and celebrating the unity of central evangelical Christian belief and experience that binds us together as believers saved by God's unfathomable grace. And in the process, perhaps we shall even contribute to the answering of one of Jesus' final prayers to His father, "Let them be one as We are one . . ." (John 17).
In Hope,
Paul
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whasssuuuppp
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 210
| Posted 10/20/2001 9:49 PM (GMT -6) | | It's interesting how similar (at least from my vantage point) the situation in the ETS is to that of the BGC. My experience has been that those within the group (the BGC, for example) who define doctrine by the narrowest standards end up trying to narrow the circle for everyone else...and eventually the whole group. In essence, issues of doctrine get raised to the level of dogma. If certain members of a group are successful in raising a viewpoint ("God foreknows the free actions of all beings") from a DOCTRINE to DOGMA, then those who don't affirm that viewpoint are now OUTSIDE of the dogma, the center of faith--which causes all kinds of problems. And so you even get people questioning whether people "saved" in response to the preaching of people who DON'T affirm a certain "dogma" (openness theology is always a good example!  ) are really saved. Don't get me wrong--dogma is important--but we need to keep it confined to the basics. (But of course people disagree on what the "basics" are!)
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Lespwa fe viv.
Hope makes us live.
A Haitian proverb | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 10/21/2001 3:50 PM (GMT -6) | | Well said Eddy and Whasssuuuppp. From where I sit, this is the difference between "evangelical" and "fundamentalist." For a fundamentalist, EVERYTHING is dogma. Hence they are forever fighting and forever splitting.
Whats at stake in the ETS issue right now is whether it will stilly try to be the Evangelical Theological Society, or whether it will capitulate to forces within and become the fundamentalist Dogma Society.
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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trosie
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 10/21/2001 6:36 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Paul Eddy: And in the process, perhaps we shall even contribute to the answering of one of Jesus' final prayers to His father, "Let them be one as We are one . . ." (John 17).
AMEN! Uniting and tearing down the walls that divide is what Christ calls ALL believers to.
Paul, It looks like you are becoming addicted to this web site!
quote:
whasssuuuppp: In essence, issues of doctrine get raised to the level of dogma
Personally, I think it so sad and narrow-minded that people would allow doctrine NOT dogma to cause division amongst the body. It's so contrary to Christ's teaching. Satan is very good at getting Christians to squabble over doctrinal issues instead of uniting and fighting the spiritual war at hand!
quote:
Doc: For a fundamentalist, EVERYTHING is dogma. Hence they are forever fighting and forever splitting.
How sad to be forever fighting and forever splitting I bet it breaks God's heart that instead of building one another up for the Kingdom, some get caught up in defending their closed scope of what they define as "dogma" to the point that they end up tearing down the unity amongst the body.
trosie
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writerdad
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 10/21/2001 11:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Because I am outside the knowledge of the ETS, could someone please enlightened me about the Gundry affair and why the gospel narratives being midrashic in nature was so scary (what is midrashic anyway?). Thanks Harold
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Springs
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 10/25/2001 6:44 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey Paul!!!
Ditto what Writer said. Tell us more...
Please!
Springs
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