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Shane
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 6
| Posted 12/29/2001 9:04 AM (GMT -6) |   | Hello everyone,
Would an open theist please reply to this?
Does post-fall man have the ability to seek God or understand Him apart from grace?
Thanks,
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/29/2001 11:02 AM (GMT -6) | | | Shane, I bet it would be helpful if you say what you mean by "apart from grace". | | Back to Top | | |
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chance
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157
| Posted 12/29/2001 10:48 PM (GMT -6) | | Welcome to the forums Shane! 
Yes, please tell us what you mean by "apart from grace". That is not a phrase that I am familiar with.
chance
A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth | | Back to Top | | |
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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 12/30/2001 7:18 PM (GMT -6) | | I think scripture is pretty clear, that apart from God's grace, no man could, or would, seek God (Romans 3:11-12). God took the initiative when He put knowledge of Himself in all of mankind's hearts (Romans 1:19-20). Greg Boyd affirms this in his recent book, Satan & the Problem of Evil: "I agree that Scripture teaches that believers choose to place their trust in Christ only because the Father 'draws them' and the Spirit enables them" (p. 82). As prooftexts, Boyd offers John 6:44, 65; 1 Corinthians 12:3; Ephesians 2:8.
Hope this helps.
--Jewgrass
"If what the Bible says about man is true [man's sinful nature], how could anyone ever possibly be saved? There are two alternatives: the Bible and TULIP Calvinism." --Dr. Laurence M. Vance | | Back to Top | | |
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Shane
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 6
| Posted 12/31/2001 8:13 AM (GMT -6) | | It is not a phrase that you are familiar Chance? Give me a break.
Let's define it this way "apart from undeserved, unmerited favor". Does that help?
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chance
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157
| Posted 1/6/2002 10:57 AM (GMT -6) | | My answer is no. My question is SO WHAT? Man couldn't do anything good apart from God's grace prior to the Fall either. The kosmos was created in grace.
chance
A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/6/2002 11:12 AM (GMT -6) | | Is there ever a time where we are apart from grace?
June
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/6/2002 11:14 AM (GMT -6) | | chance, this is off the subject, but where did you find your quote? does barth have any books or anything?
June
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chance
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157
| Posted 1/6/2002 11:24 AM (GMT -6) | | June
The answer to your first question is NO.
The answer to your second question is Page 183 of open theist extraordinaire John Sanders' book The God Who Risks.
The answer to your third question is I believe he edited the Anchor Bible Commentary (I've heard that).
chance
A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth | | Back to Top | | |
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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 1/6/2002 1:46 PM (GMT -6) | | I would like to put forth a question regarding the compatibility of man's sinful nature and faith in Christ and get some helpful commentary from the posters of this board.
Man is born with a sinful nature (Ephesians 2:3). He doesn't seek after God (Romans 3:11). Yet repeatedly, God commands all to seek after him (Matt 6:33, Acts 17:27, Gal 2:17, Heb 11:6). The Calvinists say, because of total depravity, it is impossible for a fallen being to seek after God. It is therefore a necessity for God to elect us sinners.
If this Calvinist interpretation isn't true, then that would mean it is possible for anyone to seek after God --though many, like Boyd, believe man cannot seek after God unless God initiates the relationship (Satan the Problem of Evil, p. 82).
What are yall's feelings on this? How can fallen man seek after God?
As someone struggling through the issues of soteriology, I would appreciate helpful feedback.
--Jewgrass
"Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much." --1 Corinthians 8:2 (New Living Translation)
Edited by - jewgrass on 01/06/2002 6:47:34 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/6/2002 2:03 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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(o)
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 1/31/2002 7:43 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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