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Ronald Ricketts
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 50
| Posted 2/2/2002 8:05 AM (GMT -6) |   | In the Calvinists insistance that God is in absolute control of everything, can there really be a difference in evils? Can a difference be made in senseless or pointless evils and genuine intentional evils? A case in point or question.Recently in downtown Indianapolis there was a car jacking. A young man had given a ride to two men. At a busy intersection the two men shot and killed the driver, dumped him and drove off in his car. As a Chaplain with the Indianapolis Police Department I was asked to go and notify the parents of the young driver. Death notifications are one of my primary jobs. The parents were devastated.Now, if I were a Calvinist, could I have said, "God is in control and will bring good out of this evil" or could I have said,"you know that there is a difference in evil, there is natural evil, senseless evil, intentional evil, etc". In my opinion to use either of the replies would have been the height of ignorance and stupidity. The question still remains with me, in absolute providential sovereign control, can you make a difference in evil?
Ronald | | Back to Top | | |
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Jewgrass
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 113
| Posted 2/2/2002 9:20 AM (GMT -6) | | Ronald, you need to realize that not all Calvinists believe God is in control of everything. The actual 5-point doctrines of Calvinism aren't about determinism or foreknowledge: its about salvation. Obviously, determinists have a Calvinist view of salvation, but not all Calvinists are determinists.
--Jewgrass
"Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much." --1 Corinthians 8:2 (New Living Translation) | | Back to Top | | |
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Ronald Ricketts
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 50
| Posted 2/2/2002 10:27 AM (GMT -6) | | Dear Jewgrass; Thanks for your response. When I read people like Bruce Ware, I get the impression that all Calvinists believe in Gods absolute control. Please suggest a book that might be helpful. Thanks again
Ronald | | Back to Top | | |
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Questioning
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 37
| Posted 2/3/2002 2:59 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Dear Jewgrass; Thanks for your response. When I read people like Bruce Ware, I get the impression that all Calvinists believe in Gods absolute control. Please suggest a book that might be helpful. Thanks again
Ronald
Ronald,
I agree with Jewgrass that all Calvinists do not agree on every detail. Talking with many of my friends proves that point. About the only thing they agree on is that the OV diminshes God and that I am crazy for considering it as a valid option. Then again I do not believe that God controls every little detail as R.C. Sproul puts forth. If you want to read an opposing view R.C. is a good read. Giesler's book "Chosen but Free" is another one. Hopefully you will find the books helpful.
Some people are like cement. All mixed up and permanently set. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 2/3/2002 12:38 PM (GMT -6) | | This is from a Reformed tradition.
But when I hear my friends read it, it is not deterministic. It is accepting of that even in the very worst, God is in control of US, his beloved. That is in their hearts when they read it.
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?
A. That I am not my own,^1
but belong--
body and soul,
in life and in death--^2
to my faithful Savior Jesus Christ.^3
He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,^4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.^5
He also watches over me in such a way^6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven:^7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.^8
Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life^9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.^10
^1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
^2 Rom. 14:7-9
^3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
^4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
^5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
^6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
^7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
^8 Rom. 8:28
^9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
^10 Rom. 8:1-17
Dispite the stereotypes, that is not deterministic. | | Back to Top | | |
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