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JoeMoore
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 25
| Posted 2/10/2002 11:03 AM (GMT -6) |   | I'm pulling this from the thread 'Some beginner's questions...' or something like that, because I think it's critical to the articulation (and ultimately the future) of Open Theism.
I apologize if it's been asked and answered before.
Of the little Open Theism I've had a chance to read, I think the Doc here (Boyd) has been most willing to meet this one head-on.
In my opinion, we cannot be honest with scripture and say 'there is no predestination'. There are simply too many places that many versions of the Bible are translated that way.
Open view proponents will quickly lose their (to some extent our--but I'll use 'they' for now--see below) audience if they take this on in the wrong way.
If they take the stand "predestination does not exist", they will alienate most Bible translators and many Greek scholars right off the bat (they will do just fine with many lay people—but that’s a completely separate thread).
'They' must work with the term--just as they've already worked with the term 'foreknowledge'. They must help us think outside the box that equates predestination with absolute control.
Does this reuse of a word sound malicious? Does it sound like 'they' are twisting a word to meet their own ends? Of course! But the nature of Biblical words and the understanding of Biblical words is that they are beyond definition. Every time we use a Biblical word we are re-doing much of our hermeneutic.
Personally, I am not an open theist by most definitions. There is no single proponent of open theism that I am willing to follow without reservation.
However, at the same time I believe that most open theist proponents are very sincere Christian brothers and sisters. As a group, they are more willing to take on the status quo for who they really believe God is than MOST traditional theists that I know. That is generally a good thing.
As far as foreknowledge as a single issue (which in many ways defines open theism), I am becoming more and more convinced that the Open Theists have it right (or as close as I’ll get in my lifetime).
Are they making some over-corrections in their steering in one direction or another? Of course!! You don’t make lasting Kingdom headway in a completely new direction by making small, exactly right corrections. Only time will tell if Open Theism as a movement is an overall correction of evangelical theology or if it’s ‘simply’ used by God to shake up our definitions a bit to allow what we now know as ‘traditional’ theism to become more closely aligned to the picture of God that we find in the Bible.
In either case, I will stake my life on the following statement:
Whatever predestination means or does not mean, it is very clear that God knew exactly what purpose He created the universe for. That purpose will be met. Often in spite of me, and a few times He will honor me by using me to meet that purpose.
To God be the Glory!
Joe Moore
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 2/10/2002 4:41 PM (GMT -6) | | joe,
you should check out boyd's book 'god of the possible'. i think it will answer most of the questions you have on open theism.
first off, open theist don't dispell predestination. some things are predestined. just not every single choice, every movement, etc. we don't exactly know what is and what is not. free will means a significant amount of humans have a significant amount of choice a significant amount of the time.
june
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Robert Furney
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 24
| Posted 2/11/2002 6:05 AM (GMT -6) | | That's right. Open Theism teaches that certain things are settled, decreed, predestined. But not EVERYTHING is. God is open to bring about his goals without having to micromanage everything in the world to achieve them. God is more wise, more resourceful to have to resort to that type of sovereignty.
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/11/2002 6:16 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
There is no single proponent of open theism that I am willing to follow without reservation.
Joe-
I totally agree...and I'm an open theist! 
Tom
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B. Winningham
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 15
| Posted 2/11/2002 6:27 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
first off, open theist don't dispell predestination. some things are predestined. just not every single choice, every movement, etc.
Hi June,
While I am definitely NOT a Calvinist, I agree with you that there may be some (but definitely not all things) predestined by GOD. I especially am an Arminian when it comes to the question of salvation and condemnation. I have difficulty accepting the doctrine of GOD predestining some of His created children being condemed to Hell before they were ever in the womb.
Does God have the inexhaustive foreknowledge of ALL future events like the Classical/Traditional Theists claim? I really don't know but I don't think so. I think that if He really does have such an unlimited abundance of foreknowledge that many of the evil things that have come to past may have never taken place.
The Bible speaks of GOD's "elect." Who is/are GOD's elect? Could it be whomever of His children that come to accept His Holy and Triune Son, Jesus Christ, as our Lord and Savior? Could this "elect" refer to certain individuals that GOD has set aside to help do GOD's work and to help carry out His plans (eg: Noah, Moses, Abraham, Elisha, Elijah, Jonah, the Apostles, etc.). Could Pontius Pilate have been predestined by GOD for Pilate's infamious role in Jesus Chist's death upon the cross?
I do not know but it seems to me that Open Theism (NeoArminianism) may address these issues better than Arminianism or Calvinism in Traditional Theology. What is your take please?
BTW, I have ordered Dr. Greg Boyd's book on Open Theism but have not yet recieved it.
B. Winingham
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alwyn
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 30
| Posted 2/21/2002 7:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Joe,
i gave a go at 'the meaning of predestination' at:
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/althehare/rom8.html
i fully agree OV-ists cannot deny predestination, but i'm more or less convinced that the Calvinist view of it is off...
blessings,
Al
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