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Chris Grant
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Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/12/2004 3:49 AM (GMT -6)

I was wondering if anyone on here has taken a look at the new book by Michael D. Robinson entitled _The Storms of Providence: Navigating the Waters of Calvinism, Arminianism, and Open Theism_. It looks interesting, but it's a little pricey, so I hoped to get more information before choosing to buy it.

From the publisher's description, it sounds like the author defends a position close to classical Arminianism and will therefore be critical of open theism, which will probably be a mark against the book among the open theists here. But among the books critical of open theism, how does it rank? Is it relatively well-written or not? Is it accessible to laypersons?

"I believe that, in the present divided state of Christendom, those who are at the heart of each division are all closer to one another than those who are at the fringes. I would even carry this beyond the borders of Christianity: how much more one has in common with a real Jew or Muslim than with a wretched liberalising, occidentalised specimen of the same categories."
(C.S. Lewis to Mary Willis Shelburne, November 10, 1952.)

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 2/12/2004 4:07 AM (GMT -6)

Do you know who he is? Has he written on the subject before? I'll probably pick it up if he is a reliable author.

Chris Grant
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Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/12/2004 4:18 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Do you know who he is? Has he written on the subject before? I'll probably pick it up if he is a reliable author.

He's an associate professor at Cumberland College. His webpage

www.cumberlandcollege.edu/academics/departments/religion_philosophy/faculty/mrobinson

lists 5 or 6 publications, a couple of which I took a look at in our library. My impression from that brief exposure is that he writes pretty well, he's familiar with the literature in the area, and I'd expect him to take a more temperate tone in his book than do many people writing in this field (both for and against open theism).

johnmd
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 154

Posted 2/12/2004 5:56 AM (GMT -6)

From his educational background he appears "dangerously close" TO Al Mohler--Ground zero of "Southern Baptist Calvinism."

John

Chris Grant
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/12/2004 6:16 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by johnmd

From his educational background he appears "dangerously close" TO Al Mohler--Ground zero of "Southern Baptist Calvinism."

The publisher's website says the book "defends a modified version of traditional Arminianism. The author contends that the most theologically and philosophically sound model of the divine-world relationship is one that affirms that human actions are free and not divinely determined, even while asserting [that] God has complete knowledge of the future."

Diogenes Perhaps
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Date Joined Nov 2003
Total Posts : 10

Posted 2/12/2004 6:37 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Grant

I was wondering if anyone on here has taken a look at the new book by Michael D. Robinson entitled _The Storms of Providence: Navigating the Waters of Calvinism, Arminianism, and Open Theism_.

The real question is "WHAT DOES JAMES SCOTT OF RANCHO SAN DIEGO THINK OF THE BOOK?". Big Smile

Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 2/12/2004 6:47 AM (GMT -6)

Chris: it sounds like the author defends a position close to classical Arminianism and will therefore be critical of open theism, which will probably be a mark against the book among the open theists here.

Tom: A-a-ah, now. Bandit

Being critical of open theism wouldn't be a mark agaisnt the book for open theists if he's accurate and fair. Given the other books out there against the OV, his being accurate and fair would be a mark FOR the book! Blush

Tom

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 2/12/2004 8:15 AM (GMT -6)

Well, I'll probably pick it up, no matter what James Scott says (who is he by the way?).
And I agree, TGB, fair and balanced criticism should always be welcomed.

Chris Grant
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/12/2004 9:03 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Well, I'll probably pick it up, no matter what James Scott says (who is he by the way?).

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/AGBHLVDAQNYIN/

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 2/12/2004 10:29 AM (GMT -6)

Hes a joke, right?

Chris Grant
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Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/12/2004 1:42 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Grant

But among the books critical of open theism, how does it rank? Is it relatively well-written or not? Is it accessible to laypersons?

I left out one of the most important questions: Is it cheaply printed and bound? I just went over to our library to look at other University Press of America publications, and if Robinson's book looks like these others, it's going to have to have some awfully good content to make it worth $42.

Ronald Ricketts
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 50

Posted 2/17/2004 10:19 AM (GMT -6)

For what it is worth, Michael Robinson's father was a long time American Baptist Pastor on the west side of Indianapolis. I believe that I am right is writing that Robinson got his doctorate in philosophy from Southern Seminary. I doubt that after a book such as this that he would ever be considered for a faculty position at Southern. I do not think that he would be of the gang of Bruce Ware.

Ronald

johnmd
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 154

Posted 2/17/2004 12:09 PM (GMT -6)

I appreciate that bit of information which might tip the balance for me to buy the book. If he wouldn't be hired to teach systematic theology at Southern, he can't be all bad.

Thanks
John

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 2/21/2004 2:11 PM (GMT -6)

Just picked up the book. I'll tell you how it is.

Chris Grant
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Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 2/23/2004 7:49 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Just picked up the book. I'll tell you how it is.

Great. I'd appreciate it.

a_theist
"Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286

Posted 3/4/2004 10:10 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Hes a joke, right?

Yes, yes he is!

"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne

Chris Grant
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 3/6/2004 4:29 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Just picked up the book. I'll tell you how it is.

Okay, it's been 2 weeks. Your book report is due. Wink

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 3/6/2004 6:27 AM (GMT -6)

Chris: I am going to work right now, so I'll give you a report tonight. However, let me say that the binding is definitely not worth 40. Its almost (almost I say) a cheap paperback. I think that it was made for university student who have to buy the book. It is definitely overpriced (aren't all things!). But I like the contents.

¡Que Payaso!
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 108

Posted 3/6/2004 4:04 PM (GMT -6)

I'm also dying to find out whether this book is worth my hard earned pennies or not. Look forward to your review

El Payaso Clown

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

Chris Grant
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 151

Posted 3/11/2004 2:49 AM (GMT -6)

I notice that there are now 2 reviews up on Amazon. James Scott seems to classify Robinson's position as classical Arminianism, but the other reviewer sees Robinson's position as being midway between Calvinism and Arminianism. I guess what I'd be interested in knowing is if that latter reviewer is right, and, if so, what positions Robinson takes that a traditional Arminian wouldn't.

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 3/11/2004 4:17 AM (GMT -6)

Chris: I'm about halfway through the book and will post my thoughts tonight (sorry about the delay...house buying is a lot of paperwork!).

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 3/11/2004 5:33 AM (GMT -6)

Its a book that really (so far) has no major surprises to it. (I haven't finished it so I cannot tell you if the author takes a non-traditional route) but there are no real surprises to the book. I do like how he lines up each view from their sources and evaluates them for their worthiness. In that sense it would be good for those who know nothing of the subject. However, (and I understand I am bias being an open theist), I feel he shortchanges open theism by simply dealing with the philisopical aspects and not interacting in any real way with the scriptural reasons why open theists have rejected more traditional views. I am not sure whether I will finish the book or not.
I think one of the major downfalls of the book is its length. It would be hard to cover one of these theological systems in under 300 pages (see, for instance, John Sanders The God Who Risks), yet this one comes in under 300 for three. Much is left out. Much could be covered.
My opinion? If the book was say, 15 dollars, it would be worth it. But unless you have to buy it for school, you could pick up a couple of books for the same price that do a better job. Don't buy it.

Hey, about those reviews: James Scott just cracks me up. I wonder if you could e-mail him. It'd be worth it to feel the stream coming off the e-mail.
"Puts Open Theism In Its Place." Its truly hard for me to believe that a person cannot see how childish a title like that is.

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 3/11/2004 5:43 AM (GMT -6)

Wait...withhold judgment. The first half of the book is done, but I had overlooked that the next half of the book is his evaluation of the different views side by side, taking into an account of how well they interpret scripture. This might be good. More later...

a_theist
"Thy will be done."

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286

Posted 3/12/2004 8:48 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Wait...withhold judgment. The first half of the book is done, but I had overlooked that the next half of the book is his evaluation of the different views side by side, taking into an account of how well they interpret scripture. This might be good. More later...

"The God Who Risks" recently reffirmed my confidence in the open view--well, I really never lost confidence in it. "The God Who Risks" is a good book. Big Smile

"The 'sovereignty' of God is not, I suggest, a very biblical idea, especially if one has a low opinion of the respect of sovereigns for the freedom of their subjects."
~Charles Hartshorne

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 3/12/2004 9:03 PM (GMT -6)

I think its the most well-rounded book on the subject. I keep hoping SAnder's will write another extensive one on the topic.

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