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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/27/2002 9:08 AM (GMT -6) |   | Is TIME a two-way street? (Or, does what go around come around?)
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I was reading Pavel Florevsky's "Iconostasis" last night. The first part pertains to dreams. As he puts it TIME moves BOTH forwards AND backwards. Interesting. In waking life time moves forwards. (Kant gets mentioned.) But in dreams it has a backwards dimension. On the boundary between the physical and the nonphysical dreams are a combination of two things: all the aspects that swirl and swell in that thin zone--due to life and its living and the nature of life (I'm my own words her, as I can't remember his words.)-- and the event from outside the dream that causes the dream to happen, such as a door slamming can cause the vastness of unformed elements to take the shape of a dream who's ending is also a loud noise...waking the dreamer. Both the unformed and the trigger are necessarily parts of the dream. But it is the END that causes the beginning, and not the beginning causing the end. I think you get it. So, dreams are dreamt in a sort of time that moves backwards.
Florevsky points out that to those who are in Christ this aspect of the end giving shape to the beginning and middle is also true. (Many will quickly think here of Pannenberg, particularly.) Somewhere I heard or read speak of life as being "front-loaded" like an old musket, where what goes in last gives all the rest its meaning.
My point is that we do, so habitually, and with such pressure to follow along, almost traditionally think ONLY in the forward-moving mode of time. But the MOST REAL even in Time, while it "has already happened" in the Resurrection of Christ, FOR US is YET to happen. But THAT future event works backwards to give our now and out past their MEANING.
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 4/27/2002 10:49 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Is TIME a two-way street? (Or, does what go around come around?)
It's a one-way street. You can try to drive against the traffic if you want, but you'll get run over.
One way brother. One way.
Tom
"It will change, but not soon." Greg Boyd | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/27/2002 10:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi, Tom.
I wanted to put a little "Wrinkle in Time."
BTW, do you know any Bethel College alumni over in the middle east? | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 4/27/2002 7:07 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
BTW, do you know any Bethel College alumni over in the middle east?
Isn't Yasser Arafat a graduate of Bethel?  Putting all seriousness aside, no, I don't know of any. I heard there is one couple who are out of Piper's church somewhere in Egypt I think. That's about it.
Blessings,
Tom
"It will change, but not soon." Greg Boyd | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/28/2002 1:18 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
It's a one-way street. You can try to drive against the traffic if you want, but you'll get run over.
Tom, take a another look at the firsst post. Thanks. | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/29/2002 2:27 AM (GMT -6) | | Someone once said time was like a parade: those in front of you go before you, but don't we say that it's all behind us? Weird!
For the daylight savings of it all,
Starkman
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/29/2002 11:19 AM (GMT -6) | | Comment made on another site.
quote:
by D.A.
Actually, funny you should bring this up. I recently was at the library ( a shock considering just how much I have racked up in fines..it's ok..thats why the wife has a library card. ) and I found this quirky little book on the new arrivals shelf called "How to Build a Time Machine"..can't remember the author's name. Interesting book though. It picks apart theories and ideas about time travel and so on, chief among these being that time is a constant stream. Apparently it's not. Past, present, and future are all existent at the same time. It's kind of odd. Also that time is easily manipulated by both speed and gravity. Speed is the one that affects us the most. Say for instance you traveled around the world non-stop in a plane. They've done this test with atomic clocks that has proven that if you've traveled aroudn the world in a plane you are 10 nanoseconds younger that most of the people around you. We assume that my "now" and your "Now" are the same, but if this is true, and science has proven it to be so, then they aren't. Your present and mine are completely different.
Interesting shtuff really. Mind boggling as well...
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Winghead
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 4/30/2002 6:20 PM (GMT -6) | | POT,
I thought I would reply to your post in this thread, so as to keep on topic. You quoted yourself from this post, in response to my mention of Pannenberg.
Pannenberg has a proleptic view of time -- at least with regards to eschatology and the kingdom of God. My (imperfect) understanding is that at the Consummation of the ages all things are fully realized as God intends them. Between now and then, the kingdom is breaking into the present.
I think Pannenberg still is coming from a classical perspective, and would probably say that God transcends time, being infinite, Creator, and all.
That said, it might be possible to apply this to the OV, though I haven't tried before. The fullness of all things at the consummation of the ages is what God envisions. The proleptic breaking into the present would be how that works out in time. In this scenario, God would not have to be in the "future".
As far as the flow of time, I think it flows one way. However, it might be better, when speaking of how God views things, to think of things prolepticing breaking in from the consumation of the ages. It might help us look beyond the details.
As far as Pannenberg goes, I would have to refresh my memory of his thinking on these things. Perhaps I will and I will be inspired to post more. In any case I think Pannenberg is one of the 20th Century's best theologians. Regardless of whether one agrees with him on time, his thinking on the trinity and the eschatological kingdom of God is refreshing, and IMHO, solves some thorny theological issues, without compromising scripture.
Another theologian I hope to read more of sometime is Jurgen Multmann.
YBIC,
Winghead
"...you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Mark 12:30-31 (NLT)
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