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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/11/2006 11:04 AM (GMT -6) |   | | "God's infinite transcendence makes room in itself for the real being of finite creatures..."
A SHORT quote from Hart (pp. 97-98):
... the crude dualism of the Gnostics. . .the failure to see how God's act of being -- through its infinity and transcendence -- can make room in itself for the real being of finite creatures without thereby being diminished, and how therefore God's freedom -- through its infinity and transcendence -- can make room in its determinations for the real freedom of finite rational wills without thereby being weakened or compromised. . . . At the moment it is enough to simply to make this point clear: God's gracious will for his creatures -- his willing of all things to his own infinite goodness -- is the creative power that makes all things to be and the consummate happiness to which all things are called; but this does not (indeed, must not) mean that everything that happens is merely a direct expression of God's desire for his creatures or an essential stage within the divine plan for history.
http://www.eerdmans.com/shop/product.asp?p_key=0802829767
The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami?
by David Bentley Hart
http://www.opentheismboard.org/default.aspx?f=9&m=83407
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/11/2006 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | |
PONDER-WORTHY:
1. God's act of being--through its infinity and transcendence--can make room in itself for the real being of finite creatures without thereby being diminished
2. God's freedom--through its infinity and transcendence--can make room in its determinations for the real freedom of finite rational wills without thereby being weakened or compromised
3. God's gracious will for his creatures--his willing of all things to his own infinite goodness--is the creative power that makes all things to be and the consummate happiness to which all things are called...
4. ...but this/#3 does not (indeed, must not) mean that everything that happens is merely a direct expression of God's desire for his creatures or an essential stage within the divine plan for history.
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 3/11/2006 10:44 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi PoW,
PotOnWheel said...
God's gracious will for his creatures--his willing of all things to his own infinite goodness--is the creative power that makes all things to be and the consummate happiness to which all things are called...
I do believe that God's will is for the best for his creatures!
PotOnWheel said...
...but this ... does not (indeed, must not) mean that everything that happens is merely a direct expression of God's desire for his creatures or an essential stage within the divine plan for history.
Yet we see devotion to minute detail!
John 6:12 "Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted."
Does God care for bread crumbs? To paraphrase Paul. So this would indicate to me that God considers having even the least detail correct, important.
And then there are the verses that speak of God's control of all events, even what we would consider insignificant details:
Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.
Josh. 21:45 Not one of all the Lord's good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
Ps. 33:10-11 The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes [or thoughts] of his heart through all generations.
Ps. 119:91 Your laws endure to this day, for all things serve you.
Prov. 16:4 The Lord works out everything for his own ends—even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Prov. 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails.
Lam 3:37 Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it?
Eph. 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
Isa. 46:10 "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please."
Blessings,
Lee
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Lee Merrill
booted
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 723
| Posted 3/12/2006 9:07 PM (GMT -6) | | PotOnWheel said...
Lee, I didn't understand your post-script.
Oops (or maybe just the singular, since it was just one mistake: Oop!)
I meant that the potential area for free choices (the number of free choices?) is much greater, maybe infinitely greater, than the areas that are forbidden, just as there was one forbidden tree in the garden, and yet all else was allowed, "You are free to eat from any tree..."
PotOnWheel said...
I have to wonder whether what you are saying is weak on two of the points [determinists] are weak on: the incompatability of sin with God's transcendent will; and, the "triumphalism of the gospel" -- esp. Johannine and Pauline showing "spiritual and cosmic warefare." (Hart)
I actually believe that all sinful actions are part of God's perfect plan for good. Certainly God is opposed to sin, in and of itself, yet not to the results he sees that it will bring, as seen, for example, here:
Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase...
Or as in the cross, the worst sinful deed man has done.
And yes, there is a battle! But God is certainly not having to extend himself, in order to win.
See Psalm 2!
Blessings,
Lee
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 3/12/2006 10:24 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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