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Sahid
Megistered Rember




Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
 
   Posted 9/11/2006 6:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
First off. Sorry for being flaky, here today gone tomorrow. Very busy, often stressed, little time for theology, less for discussion. Just thought you guys might appreciate this.

Second off. Let it be known that I am unabashedly an open theist. Certain labels I am unconcomfortable with. They are not quite accurate. Not the open view. I'm on board 100%.

Finally. I just prayed the words "forgive me my open theism." Of course this is trite and base just like every other prayer I've uttered. But at least for me, this one hit it. It was the most honest confession I've given in a while. Open theism is dangerous!!! Because God is ultimately in control (I of course mean this in an OT PC way), truth is a good thing. I mean finding the truth should ultimately be a good thing in the world of a benevolent God. And I believe that OT is truth. But what I've always acknowledged and am finally knowing is that the truth is dangerous. It's like a hot dish that you are told is hot but you pick up anyway. For a while you are fine. And then the dish crashes loudly when it hits the floor. Only some of us, courageous heretical seeking truth-hungry open theists (or maybe just I) can't realize that the broken dish is a consequence of it being hot and our disbelief that it could hurt us.

Cutting to the chase. Open theism minimizes certain extremes. It says yes to the extremes but no to their reaching past their proper bounds. Yes to God's control but no to his control over uncontrolled free choices. Yes to omniscience but no to knowledge of what are essentially lies. So on. But one danger is that in holding the open view we may see ourselves as more self-actualizing than we really are. For all our free will, God is one step ahead of us. He still is our protector. He still is the only one we run to if we have any scrap of sanity left.

In our open theism let us remember that the God we see as limited is still more accurately described as unlimited in comparison to anything else we may know.

Now I'll go back to being a hit and run, fair-weather poster.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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PotOnWheel
Registered Member




Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 9/11/2006 7:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sahid said...
...the God we see as limited
What's this mean?


(o)

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One Love
Registered Member




Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
 
   Posted 9/11/2006 7:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sup, man.

Keep workin' it all though!

:-)


The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
 
Live in Christ's love, the Spirit's empowerment, and the Father's grace.
 

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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!




Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
 
   Posted 9/12/2006 6:46 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Zach, glad you're still kickin'!

Yup, I've certainly learned to be veeeery careful about how I explain OT to others who are curious to know what it is... and also careful about to whom I'll mention it. If it comes up and people ask me what I think, I'll share.


 

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trosie
Registered Member


Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
 
   Posted 9/14/2006 12:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sahid >>Second off. Let it be known that I am unabashedly an open theist. Certain labels I am unconcomfortable with. They are not quite accurate. Not the open view. I'm on board 100%.
 

In reading from one of my assignments I found something that I thought was very interesting.  This is from The New History of Social Welfare
 
"'Capitalism…depends…on exploiting the labor of the (poor)…For this reason, (they) have an interest in (poverty), since if there were no have-nots, there could be no one to work for them, no one to rent their buildings, no one from whom wealth could be derived.  This…means that capitalist societies…can never rid (themselves) of poverty.  Poverty is the basis of wealth.  The dependency of the rich on the poor is the fundamental hidden reality of this system.'
 
Protestant ethic is a value accepted by most Americans regardless of religion.  It's complex values includes individualism, personal achievement and worth, the morality of wealth, and for America, patriotism… The work ethic springs from the merchantilist movement of the early Middle Ages and the Protestant Reformation.  Martin Luther's belief in work as a calling and John Calvin's teachings on predestination came to mean that THOSE PREDESTINED TO SALVATION WERE IDENTIFIABLE BY THEIR WEALTH.  IF WEALTH SHOWED MORALITY THAN SURELY POVERTY SHOWED IMMORALITY."
 

And there we have it.    Calvin's predestination = judgment of who is "in" and "worthy" based upon ones wealth not the heart.cry  
 
Sahid here is one more reason to stand bold and declare the open view instead of predestination!
 
Interesting, isn't it? -- How in opposition the American work ethic is from what Jesus came to declare.  The Kingdom of God is not about individualism but about the whole body of Christ.  Jesus declared that the last shall be first and humbled himself in service by washing the feet of his disciples.  "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom"  "Don't store up treasures that won't last" …..  This difference between the American/Protestant work ethic and what Jesus exemplified can bring one to examine their own life.
 
Open theism might be dangerous... but NOT examing our beliefs and values can be extremely dangerous.  I wonder how many people live in auto pilot, believing deep down what Luther and Calvin suggested?  How many Americans are holding to a work ethic that is in opposition to the teachings of Jesus? 
 
 
Just thought I'd share this
Trosie
 
 
 
 

Post Edited (trosie) : 9/14/2006 12:49:45 AM (GMT-5)

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